SiDi128

[squid4]

Very little news on this project by Manuferhi but no announcements. Slingshot gone quiet and committing changes for it? Appears to be based on the MiST with Cyclone 10 10CL120, 120kLE, 128MB. Seems to have HDMI mentioned in the source but no HDMI ports I see.
Seems to have a release date of Spring 2024. Maybe a MiSTer killer?

[DanyPPC]

Do you referring to this ?
https://www.retrowiki.es/viewtopic.php?t=200039761

[slingshot2]

It's exist in prototype form. The final version will have the HDMI chip on board (and it'll be smaller, too).

There's no DDR3 on it, as the Cyclone10LP cannot have it, also there's no Linux, but the ordinary MiST firmware on steroids (or someone could write a new one if want...the MCU is powerful enough), otherwise it's comparable to the MiSTer.

On the plus side, it has integrated double SDR SDRAM without multiplexed pins and length-matched traces (no limitations of their usage), USB HUB, High-speed SD-Card slot, DB9 ports (even with MegaDrive mode), high-speed QSPI connection from ARM to FPGA, RTC, High-speed USB in device mode (mass storage to transfer files from PC will really work), I2S and SPDIF audio, and goes with passive cooling. Also easy to port MiST cores, and debugging is now much pleasant with more BRAM. More advanced (bigger) cores can be also ported.

What will be the FPGA size? I don't know, the prototype has a 10CL55, but the board is capable of holding all variants of the 10LP family, so it'll depend on the price, I guess.

It's really a next-gen MiST.

sidi128.jpg

[DanyPPC]

Cool !

[squid4]

Not clear but it says he's added a 10CL120 https://twitter.com/manuferhi/status/17 ... 2226268185.

[ManuFerHi]

Final version has 10CL120, if all goes well, it will be on sale in spring 24.

[uchristo]

Sounds promising! I like the approach of not going the mister-way and avoiding the seperate linux

Will the HDMI-Port be somehow configurable (e.g. include a framebuffer for upscaling)?

[scandy]

Will it keep an analogue video output (VGA)?
Thanks

[slingshot2]

Sounds promising! I like the approach of not going the mister-way and avoiding the seperate linux

Will the HDMI-Port be somehow configurable (e.g. include a framebuffer for upscaling)?

Not really, so you'll need a little bit of luck choosing a display. My test displays however plays very nice with most cores. A horizontal resampler can be added later on, that'll make it similar to OSSC, without the excess DA->AD conversion.

Will it keep an analogue video output (VGA)?

Yes. Even 15kHz and HDMI can co-exist.

[DanyPPC]

Yes. Even 15kHz and HDMI can co-exist.

This is very appreciated.

[MasterOfGizmo]

Very cool! The prototype reminds me of the first MiST prototypes. Any idea about the final price tag?

It's really nice to see new boards being developed.

[slingshot2]

As the 10CL120 FPGA is about 150 EUR, it won't be cheap I guess. No subsidy from Intel for this board
But as nothing is cheap nowadays, I think it'll worth the price.

[ManuFerHi]

The issue of the price is the great handicap, the retail price with 10CL120 will be around 350 + VAT at launch
But I am confident that the price of Cyclone 10 LP will continue to drop and over time it can be purchased for less than €300
There is the option of releasing a version with a smaller FPGA (the footprint is compatible down to 10CL040) but I don't know if it is worth it, maybe 040 is not enough for the HDMI frame buffer.
In the end, if there are two versions, from experience people end up purchasing the large version. In Spain there is a saying that says "caballo grande, ande o no ande".

[ManuFerHi]

Another economical option is Poseidon
https://github.com/ManuFerHi/Poseidon
Poseidon is a motherboard to connect an FPGA with QMTech form factor (with passive serial option)
This is still a MIST, with a huge FPGA (possibly the largest MIST in the world) with PCM5102 I2S and an RC2014 compatible 80-pin expansion connector.
This will be available this Christmas at a very affordable price, €80
The QMtech GX150 FPGA costs around €100.

[MasterOfGizmo]

That's pretty expensive. Too expensive for me.

That's why I went with the cheap chinese Tang Nano lately. Sipeed are constantly building new boards with bigger FPGAs and they plan on.doing a complete cased FPGA retro console with a 138k LUT device for ~ 100€.

[DanyPPC]

Another economical option is Poseidon
https://github.com/ManuFerHi/Poseidon

But still limited to VGA Dac 6bits like the MiST, so AGA Amiga palette is degrated.
Better to invest in something advanced.

[scandy]

There is the option of releasing a version with a smaller FPGA (the footprint is compatible down to 10CL040) but I don't know if it is worth it, maybe 040 is not enough for the HDMI frame buffer.

May I ask what would be a hypothetical price range for an analog-only version of SiDi 128 with FPGA 10CL040?
Would it be "bigger" (in terms of logical units) than the current MiST?
And how would the cores compatibility be maintained with its bigger brother 10CL120? (would it be enough to change the pins?)

For my needs I also find the Poseidon interesting, even if I don't quite understand the AGA "issue" and, again, what should be done for core compatibility/porting from MiST.

Thank you.

[DanyPPC]

The VGA output of MiST/SiDi is limited to 18bit (262.000 colors)
AGA is capable of 24bit palette (16.777.216 colors).

Try any AGA game with 24bit palette and you will have the answer.

[scandy]

The VGA output of MiST/SiDi is limited to 18bit (262.000 colors)
AGA is capable of 24bit palette (16.777.216 colors).

Try any AGA game with 24bit palette and you will have the answer.

I see, thank you.

[slingshot2]

There is the option of releasing a version with a smaller FPGA (the footprint is compatible down to 10CL040) but I don't know if it is worth it, maybe 040 is not enough for the HDMI frame buffer.

May I ask what would be a hypothetical price range for an analog-only version of SiDi 128 with FPGA 10CL040?

I don't think the HDMI chip + connector has a significant price.

[MasterOfGizmo]

The problem is that this board still seems way too expensive. The MiST is also pretty overpriced nowadays since Lotharek decided that he's not making enough profit

Once one of these boards turns out to do its job nicely it may be a cool idea to release/redo it in e.g. kicad with the bom and placement data for a service like jlcpcb. That way anyone can get one of these boards for the lowest possible price and can even easily do all the changes he wants incl. e.g. more bits for the analog video.

What exact HDMI chip is that? Should be pretty easy to check how much it adds to the overall cost. My guess for a board of this kind it's total EUR 40 for everything but the FPGA. So the production price with a 150 Euro FPGA is still under 200 Euros. The first MiST prototypes were < 100 Euro. But at that time I did not have the experience with production in china I have now.

[slingshot2]

My guess for a board of this kind it's total EUR 40 for everything but the FPGA. So the production price with a 150 Euro FPGA is still under 200 Euros. The first MiST prototypes were < 100 Euro. But at that time I did not have the experience with production in china I have now.

I don't think those extras are only 40 EUR. As I just checked on Mouser, 2x64MB SDRAM is more than 20 Euro (128 MiB addons for MiSTer are sold for 55-60 Euro). And there are lot of other goodies there, like the ARM+MAX3421e+support chips, all kinds of connectors which quickly add up to higher numbers. I think it's more close to 100 EUR+FPGA just for parts.

As ManuFerHi said, hopefully the FPGA's price will drop significantly, as the Cyclone10LP is supposed to be the low-cost product from Intel, which is not so low currently.

[slingshot2]

What exact HDMI chip is that?

It's an IT6613E - mainly because that was the only HDMI chip which had some programming info available (and a horrible, but at least working driver code from the Taiwanese manufacturer, taken from the OSSC source tree).

[MasterOfGizmo]

A quick search for 32M x 16 SDR SDRAMs gave me several for 5-7 Euros. This would be 10 to 14 Euros for the whole 128MB. I am sure when I search a little more I can find much cheaper ones in far east.

The Arm and the Max be better dirt cheap or they should really be replaced by something more recent and cheaper. The Tang Nano e.g. comes with a < 2 Euro chip that is way more powerful than my old Arm+MAX combo. Yes, it's pretty new and the tooling still has a lot of quirks. But it's so much more powerful ...

[slingshot2]

A quick search for 32M x 16 SDR SDRAMs gave me several for 5-7 Euros. This would be 10 to 14 Euros for the whole 128MB. I am sure when I search a little more I can find much cheaper ones in far east.

The Arm and the Max be better dirt cheap or they should really be replaced by something more recent and cheaper. The Tang Nano e.g. comes with a < 2 Euro chip that is way more powerful than my old Arm+MAX combo. Yes, it's pretty new and the tooling still has a lot of quirks. But it's so much more powerful ...

The SAMV71 was also much cheaper 2 years ago...hopefully these prices will normalize soon. Actually I always thought about the RP2040, it's cheap, powerful enough (well, no 4-bit SDIO and no QSPI) and available, too, maybe one day it'll be also an option. The BL616 is also powerful, but it's a bit limited by GPIOs (and I'm afraid a bit of Chinese SDKs...).
I think the manufacturer knows where to get the parts for the best price.