Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

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mado
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Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by mado »

Hi. Is there some midi sequencer for TOS, which is still developed further? Preferably an open source one?

I know about all the good stuff from the 80s/90s, Cubase, Notator etc..., but is there a contemporary one?
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by stormy »

Nope.
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by mado »

Pity!
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by vinz6751 »

I got news from the author of Sweet16 a few months ago, because I wanted to take over development, but he could not accept to make it open source because some of the code is still used in his non-Atari products.
I would like to make a sequencer for the C256 GenX or A2560U (www.c256foenix.com), I started something a few years back but didn't get very far for lack of time. But I'm motivated to work in this area.
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by mado »

It's a pity, that we have a computer with integrated midi interface, a free and open source graphical single-tasking operating system (what is good for guaranteed reaction times), but have no contemporary sequencer for it. :-/

Maybe Roni Music would be willing to develop sweet sixteen further, if sponsored? Freeware and up-to-date would be better, than nothing. Maybe, we find enough people, who would like to sponsor further development...
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by Mindthreat »

But is it really needed? I guess my question would be, what exactly modern features are needed that don't already exist with Notator, Cubase or Pro-24? When the best already exists, it's hard for anyone to be motivated to do anything beyond?
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by mado »

- If your dongle breaks, you can't do nothing with your sequencer anymore. And you can easily plug it in the wrong way round.
- If someone new wants to start using this software, he has to pay a much too high price for used software because of more and more dongles break.
- If the machines develop further on (Coldfire, EmuTOS, ...) the software will possibly not run on them, like Cubase on EmuTOS.
- Even if this old software may be feature-complete, nevertheless it may be fine to have this or that bug be fixed or one or another feature, as technology also develops further, like mpe or such.

Nobody, who still owns some old software is forced to change anything, as far as he is happy with it.
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by cdpjenkins »

</lurk>

Since I rediscovered the Atari world a few months ago, one thing that makes me really sad is seeing the amount of closed source software that has just been abandoned. I'm with madu, in that I'm very reluctant to use such software. If something goes wrong, wherever a bug, a hardware failure or a new piece of hardware that the authors didn't anticipate, I don't want to be completely on my own. So I would love it if there was a midi sequencer for the ST that was still developed and/or was open source. I appreciate that's up the the copyright holders of each piyce of software though.

(When it comes to music software, these days I use Logic Pro. Given that it's not open source, I'd be unlikely to keep using it if Apple stopped supporting it.)
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by sporniket »

Most open source software are written to fulfill a need of their creator ("to scratch one's own itch"). When I really really want something, I start doing it myself, and if it need learning and practice, I do it (e.g. to convert the STe schematics into Kicad, I had to learn Kicad and a little bit of electronic, and I also had to learn python to write script that automate the generation of Kicad symbols for vintage integrated circuits).

For writing a Midi editor from scratch, I would start with recording note events from midi in step by step, and replay them with correct timing. Use keyboard keys for minimalistic user interface, and lot of simple prints on screen. Once you get that you can work on something more fancy looking, or even use AES for managing the user interface.
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by charles »

yes open source
in abandonware atari orphan projects
hybrid arts 32 track sequencer
written in c and assembler
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by Zippy »

mado wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:14 pm - If your dongle breaks, you can't do nothing with your sequencer anymore. And you can easily plug it in the wrong way round.
The dongle for Cubase 3.x and Cubase Score has recently been reversed engineered so perfect hardware clones can be made relatively easily. Also there's a 100% software only crack available for those versions too. So for Cubase at least there's no longer a dongle problem.

See this thread:
https://atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=20130
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by charles »

what does dongle have to do with this threads topic?
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by siriushardware »

Someone suggested that one reason we need an open source sequencer is because legitimate copies of Cubase with working dongles are getting harder to come by and consequently more expensive, so Zippy is pointing out that for Cubase at least that is no longer a limitation.

I'm wondering if there are any decent open source Linux sequencers which could feasibly be forked to run on the ST, the main problem I can imagine would be memory since most such projects will be designed to run in the near limitless memory of a PC rather than the meagre 0.5MB to 4MB available on an ST. Maybe it would be just about possible to do a line by line conversion to assembly language from one of the simpler ones. Well above my level to do something like that though.
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by Zippy »

charles wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:21 pm what does dongle have to do with this threads topic?
It's all in the thread above. Someone asked why an open source Sequencer would be needed and the OP replied with a few reasons, one being that it wouldn't need a dongle unlike the existing commercial programs like Cubase. And as the dongles can fail not needing one would be a valid advantage of a new, open source alternative. I was just pointing out that there's now a method to replace broken Cubase dongles and that a crack is also available so the advantage of not needing a dongle no longer really applies to Cubase, which the OP may not be aware of having only joined here last month.
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by charles »

im off topic too
but I will remove myself from this chaos ,
just felt the open source mention to hybrid arts was compliant enough to respond.

good luck
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by sporniket »

siriushardware wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:41 pm I'm wondering if there are any decent open source Linux sequencers which could feasibly be forked to run on the ST, the main problem I can imagine would be memory since most such projects will be designed to run in the near limitless memory of a PC rather than the meagre 0.5MB to 4MB available on an ST. Maybe it would be just about possible to do a line by line conversion to assembly language from one of the simpler ones. Well above my level to do something like that though.
The only one I knew 10 years ago is RoseGarden.
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by mado »

sporniket wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:19 am The only one I knew 10 years ago is RoseGarden.
Well, I have lots of sequencers, Fl Studio, Reaper, Ardour, LMMS, ... I explicitely asked for a midi sequencer for TOS. I think, that TOS is ideal for this task, because of being single-tasked. This results in a quasi realtime system.
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by saulot »

Free software is not free to develop in sense of time and money and most of the time end-users aren't paying even fraction of cost related to development, only the developers. Updates, development of new features, maintenance, bug fixing, testing - it costs time and money and time is not free. Someone has to program it, test it, integrate and check if anything else works as intended and as fast as intended. In the meantime each developer has to pay for rent, power, food, hardware and/or maintenance of hardware, support their family(if any). Love of community doesn't provide any of these. Additionaly it would be cool to have life other than that, there's 24h in a day, and people usualy have fuckton of other ideas to do in their free time. Ideas are cheap, there's plenty of them. I hope that it's enough, very blunt response, why there is no brand new open source midi sequencer for Atari ST and up. So, motivation is just minimal fraction of a problem.
And no, most projects from linux will not work efficiently out of the box on basic hardware.
Last edited by saulot on Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by 1st1 »

charles wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:49 pm yes open source
in abandonware atari orphan projects
hybrid arts 32 track sequencer
written in c and assembler
Where to download it?
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by charles »

the orphaned projects page??
i dont know where is now....
betcha its still looming on the net somewhere


https://gitlab.com/ggnkua/Atari_ST_Sources.git
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by charles »

tom bajoras

ez score
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by Mindthreat »

charles wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:24 pm tom bajoras

ez score
Oh, that's cool! I didn't realize he made other programs - thanks!
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by dbsys »

charles wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:24 pm tom bajoras

ez score
Sorry, Hybrid Arts EZ-Score is a notation software.

I think you wanted to say: Hybrid Arts Edit Track, which is freeware now.

Download from here:
https://exxosforum.co.uk/atari/mirror/tamw/editrk.htm
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by farvardin »

siriushardware wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:41 pm I'm wondering if there are any decent open source Linux sequencers which could feasibly be forked to run on the ST,
someone talked about Rosegarden, but on Linux I find Muse Sequencer to be the best. It's quite close to Cubase (ST version), I think (by its design). But it couldn't be forked on ST I suppose.

When I'm on ST I'm using Cubase 3 (the software cracked version, which is good enough), on Linux, Muse Sequencer.
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Re: Midi Sequencer which is still in Development?

Post by elliot »

vinz6751 wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:11 pm I got news from the author of Sweet16 a few months ago, because I wanted to take over development, but he could not accept to make it open source because some of the code is still used in his non-Atari products.
I would like to make a sequencer for the C256 GenX or A2560U (www.c256foenix.com), I started something a few years back but didn't get very far for lack of time. But I'm motivated to work in this area.
You could do a contract which stops you from doing anything other than dev the Atari version and no distribution of source. This would keep his Atari "child" going and being updated and give us a with developing MIDI software.

Contracts can say whatever you like!
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