new Nova drivers

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joska
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by joska »

I got my graphics card working again in my STE today and went to Idek's site for drivers when I noticed this message. Looks like he's dropping any further development :(

I also found this: https://silicon-heaven.org/atari/nova/S ... /Panther2/
Mach64 driver for ST! Does anybody know what the difference between a Panther2 and a Nova or VoFa is? I have a spare 2Mb Mach64 ISA that I would love to use in my Mega STE.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by frank.lukas »

Panther and Panther/2 are Nova compatible so you can try it. I not know, never test it. I run the 030 version with my PAK68/3 ...
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by leech »

joska wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:59 pm
TheNameOfTheGame wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:29 pm What happened? I was very excited about this project. :(
https://silicon-heaven.org/atari/nova/nVMG/
I legit had hardware issues, so was unable to test. Not to mention little available time. Shocked no one else stepped up to test.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by TheNameOfTheGame »

leech wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:00 pm
joska wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:59 pm
TheNameOfTheGame wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:29 pm What happened? I was very excited about this project. :(
https://silicon-heaven.org/atari/nova/nVMG/
I legit had hardware issues, so was unable to test. Not to mention little available time. Shocked no one else stepped up to test.
Crap! I wish Idek would have said something before he left if that was the reason. I could have tested some configurations also. I know he asked for testers back a while ago, but I figured he had found enough ppl. I guess I shouldn't have assumed that. :(
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by dhedberg »

Well, we're all into this (be it developing software, demos, games, hardware or whatever) for the fun of it.
I get the feeling that Idek perhaps wasn't able to find the joy in doing it anymore, and then it's definitely time to stop and go on as he said himself. It's a big loss for sure. His work was much appreciated!
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by leech »

dhedberg wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:14 pm Well, we're all into this (be it developing software, demos, games, hardware or whatever) for the fun of it.
I get the feeling that Idek perhaps wasn't able to find the joy in doing it anymore, and then it's definitely time to stop and go on as he said himself. It's a big loss for sure. His work was much appreciated!
I agree with this 100% I really wanted to test this some more, but have been working 10-12 hour shifts at work, and when you spend that much time every day trying to fix computer issues, mucking around with beta drivers seems far less fun.
Hell, people keep popping up randomly and asking for TT/Mega STe LEDs/holders too. So I know how one can feel burned out about it.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by dhedberg »

leech wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:24 pm I agree with this 100% I really wanted to test this some more, but have been working 10-12 hour shifts at work, and when you spend that much time every day trying to fix computer issues, mucking around with beta drivers seems far less fun.
Hell, people keep popping up randomly and asking for TT/Mega STe LEDs/holders too. So I know how one can feel burned out about it.
Yes, it's easily done to take on too much, but when it comes to Atari as a hobby I think most people are in no hurry (normally). I'll let Idek speak for himself, but at least my experience is that if you start growing tired of something and no longer do it for the fun of it, it's also easy to get annoyed/disappointed at people. The only sensible thing is to stop and find something that brings you joy again.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by mrbombermillzy »

Hmm..

I dont really have time (or much mental clarity!) due to my 2 young children waking up through the night, especially if I turn on the noisy SCSI TT HDD!

However, when Idek asked for beta testers for the new unified driver, I felt obliged to offer, as I really appreciate what he has done for the VME card drivers over the years and really hoped I could help. Surprisingly, both of us were shocked; I seemed to be the first responder.

After an initial look and preliminary feedback (where to be honest, I couldnt figure out how to set it), things turned bad for me (my car was written off in an accident amongst other things) and I couldnt get time to test without waking someone up, so I had to stall.

I did explain to him and he seemed fine about it. Maybe theres too many of us with too many excuses that annoyed him?

However, I get he has had enough. Im sorry that I couldnt commit fully to it. (I havent even been able to look at my own projects for a good 3 months or so now, either! It sucks).

I really hope he will reconsider, as pretty much everyone with a GFX card on the Atari uses his work and he should be a proud and respected pillar of the Atari community.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by TheNameOfTheGame »

Yes, I hope he reads this and reconsiders. I will definitely help out if he starts back with the unified driver. I feel bad about what happened really. I hope he didn't feel ignored or unappreciated, because he is most assuredly respected and appreciated in the Atari 16-bit community.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by Idek Tramielski »

TheNameOfTheGame wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:41 pm Yes, I hope he reads this and reconsiders. I will definitely help out if he starts back with the unified driver. I feel bad about what happened really. I hope he didn't feel ignored or unappreciated, because he is most assuredly respected and appreciated in the Atari 16-bit community.
I don't intend for anybody to feel bad about the situation. Thanks to everybody who was willing to help with the drivers. I totally understand that there are more important things in life than ATARI!

Actually this also is true for my own life, and if you invest many hours/days/nights/weeks in the development of new drivers and the response is so little, one starts to ask oneself if there are not more important things to take care of. The problem for me as a developer who tackles new problems everyday in my main job, it can be really difficult to get back to an older project that you worked on weeks or months ago. This is very tedious and time consuming and usually sets one back a certain amount of time.

The same is true for my hardware setup: I own probably about 50 classic computers, of which about 10 are ATARIs. I try to test my projects with as many different hardware setups as possible (ST, MegaSTE, TT, Falcon, Nova, VoFa, Mega4000, STGA, ....) and my workspace looks pretty wild during testing. At some point after not getting any more feedback, I need to put my setup back into storage to make space for new things and/or other machines.

There is also one personal observation related to all things ATARI. I know that many people don't share my sentiments, but it is my personal experience and therefor plays a role for motivating of frustrating me:
There seems to be a strange mixture of pseudo experts and trolls in the scene that make it sometimes hard to want to be part of it.
You wouldn't believe how demanding some users are, even if I never charged anything for the drivers or the domain and servers that I sponsored for the last 20 years out of my own pocket.
On top of it, I recently sold my extra Falcon setup with CT60e, SuperVidel and SvethLANa to a German scene member who wanted to develop software for the SuperVidel, just to find the parts sold of at eBay two weeks later. Someone else noticed this and started a thread about this in atari-home. I refused to publish the name of the buyer, but the the thread got out of hand after the buyer himself started to defend himself. In the end some of his pals accused me of washing dirty linen in public, which was exactly what I tried to prevent! As a result, after being member for nearly 20 years, I deleted my account at atari-home.
(The original thread got split, the discussion taken out of context and is now only visible to registered members).

Compared to this, in my 20 active years in ACORN forums, I have not had a bad experience once.
I know I am not being very fair to all the nice people here, but I ask myself every time I read some of the sh*t posts that raise my blood pressure: Why I am doing this???

ATARI has been at the center of my personal computer hobby and it is *really* hard to close this chapter. This is not the first time that I am struggling with this decision and so far I have not been able to close this chapter completely. This is the first time though that I started to sell off my ATARI computers and parts, which feels scary but necessary to get some distance.

Sorry if I am blathering, but I wanted to give you some context to understand where I am at right now.
I also hope that my limited language skills as non-native speaker won't overly mess up the meaning of my reasoning.

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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by dhedberg »

Thanks for giving us some background information. I'm not going to try and convince you to change your mind, but I do want to say that all the work, time, and effort that you've put into the drivers is very much appreciated. I'm very sad to see you leave and I sincerely hope that you'll change your mind. If not, I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to spend your time on in the future.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by joska »

Idek Tramielski wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:28 pm On top of it, I recently sold my extra Falcon setup with CT60e, SuperVidel and SvethLANa to a German scene member who wanted to develop software for the SuperVidel, just to find the parts sold of at eBay two weeks later.
This sucks, I've experienced the same a couple of times myself where I've sold stuff really cheap to someone who "needed it for a project" just to find it sold at a profit shortly after. The solution for this was simple though - I've stopped selling my stuff years ago and I hope you do the same. You might be fed up with the Atari-stuff now, but sooner or later you'll want to revisit it and then it would suck if all your stuff is gone.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by joska »

Oh, and I have to say that I'm very grateful for your work on the Nova drivers. I'm using it on two different machines now and hopefully on two more in the near future. I'm afraid it's just too easy to take these things for granted when they just work and not let people know that their hard work is much appreciated.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by Bikerbob »

Well I wanted to say thanks Idek, I am no expert and I hope I have not been too much of a pain in the ass. ;) I love playing with the hardware end of my retro Ataris, and your drivers and time and effort have been a great source of enjoyment for me as I make my machine display resolutions and images I did not think possible.

Much appreciated.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by TheNameOfTheGame »

Glad to from you Idek and yes I agree with all the sentiments above. Without your drivers, I wouldn't have success with my Hades machine nor my Panther and Vofa adapters. I apologize for not reaching out to offer to test your nVMG.

It was so exciting to hear about it. An integrated video driver. Sounded fantastic, but I let my attention go to other things and missed out. I regret that.

If you do decide to do more testing and development of the nVMG, please count me in! I am just a PM away. :cheers:

Thank you once more for all your contributions and I wish you the best whatever makes you happy.
Last edited by TheNameOfTheGame on Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by dhedberg »

Count me in as well if you'd decide to continue the work on nVMG! I would happily test it on my TT+Mach64.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by DoG »

Here is why I didn't stepped forward and helped out:

I got VOFA, Nova, Panther and various gfxcard like Mach64, Mach32 and ET4000 with different memory configs but I don't have them installed in working machines all the time. I don't have access to all of my machines since all my stuff is split between two different places. If test would be needed fast, I'm not up for it.

I also didn't know if I hade the expertise/experience to fulfill the test you wanted.

But I do appreciate all the drivers you got at the moment and the amount of time it probably took to get them all together.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by Kroll »

dhedberg wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:30 pm Count me in as well if you'd decide to continue the work on nVMG! I would happily test it on my TT+Mach64.
Me too, I can test in this configuration I have TT +Mach64, moreover with your help I have corrected drivers for the same card on PCI in my Hades :D
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by frank.lukas »

frank.lukas wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:49 pm Panther and Panther/2 are Nova compatible so you can try it. I not know, never test it. I run the 030 version with my PAK68/3 ...
@joska ... at do not work.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by Cyprian »

btw would be cool to read an article about creating that driver (challenges etc, differences between NOVA cards, differences between interfaces, VoFA, VME, Panther, STGA, MegBus etc.)
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by dhedberg »

Cyprian wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:56 pm btw would be cool to read an article about creating that driver (challenges etc, differences between NOVA cards, differences between interfaces, VoFA, VME, Panther, STGA, MegBus etc.)
I second that!
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by stormy »

Thank you Idek - your drivers and work have put a smile on my face every time I turn my TT on and enjoy using it. Thank you very much for all your hard work. I would beta test but do not possess an et4000 card.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by mikro »

stormy wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:52 pm Thank you Idek - your drivers and work have put a smile on my face every time I turn my TT on and enjoy using it. Thank you very much for all your hard work. I would beta test but do not possess an et4000 card.
Second that, I have only a Mach64 otherwise I would sign up for testing immediately.

Btw, if you really want to take a break, please consider releasing your work -- someone else can carry on your legacy. :)
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by Arne »

@Idek:
You know my opinion as we have talked about a similar topic one or two years ago. I saw your call for beta-testers but I was sure that a lot of people owning a Nova and using your drivers would "enlist". A more urgent follow-up post might have woken up people.

Yes, these pseudo-experts do exist. And they are annoying! They have been the reason why I left the German forum years ago. And I never looked back. I understand your reasons and if you are happier among ACORN users then just go for it. A hobby should be fun and not the reason for issues & trouble.

ijor asked for help over here on some Blitter testing about two weeks ago as he needed logic-analyser dumps of blitter activity. I was glad to lend a helping hand as I really appreciate his posts. He is one of those people who really have something to say. Not many people do own a 1040STE and a logic analyser with the settings he needed. So you see: community isn't that bad. :D Just ignore the trouble-makers - as I do.
Anyway: I do understand your motivation for leaving.
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Re: new Nova drivers

Post by Rustynutt »

And I as well having done small business with Wolfgang can say without a doubt, a solid man. Thanks for everything!
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