WIFI for all ataris over serial!

[Greenious]

(Edit: Confirmed Working! Read Thread!)

(EDit 2: Czietz did the groundwork and his guide to do it yourself can be found here:
https://www.chzsoft.de/site/hardware/co ... -internet/ )

Anyone checked out the ESP8266 and how it can be used with Ataris?

It's dirtcheap... got GND, +5V, RX, TX and uses AT commands...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ESP8266 ... bf4e7a877b

Should plug right into the serial port of any atari...

Sorry, you need this aswell...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ESP-01- ... 8ae359fb1e

Anyway, it's a complete serial wifi solution for less than $3...

I suppose all it needs is a ini file for sting? Anyone tried this?

[wongck]

It says AT commands .... so it looks like a modem ???
So to STING it looks like a modem...

[czietz]

First of all, I'm using an ESP8266 on my Atari for over a year now, but just to poll the network time at startup and to download files via HTTP. See e.g.


Secondly, of course I have also thought about what you suggested. But it cannot be done in the way you think. For STinG to work with it, it would require PPP (or maybe SLIP) support, which the ESP8266 firmware cannot do. Even if you wrote your custom firmware for this, it would still be next to impossible to implement PPP on the ESP8266 because of the very limited network stack on that device.

And yes, the default firmware's commands start with "AT" but that's the only resemblance it has to a modem. So no, it does not look like a modem at all to STinG.

If you wanted a WiFi modem for your ST, you could go for a cheap embedded Linux board with WiFi (something like the Linkit Smart for around $10 or a Raspberry Pi 3) and install a PPP daemon there. Then it would work with STinG right out of the box. We discussed all the options in a thread on a German Atari forum a while ago (when I built my ESP8266-based module) and the opinion there -- iirc -- was that the serial port was to slow for Internet access anyway.

[mikro]

the serial port was to slow for Internet access anyway.

This is perhaps the most important fact -- 115200 (in best case scenario) makes literally 115200 / 10 (start+8+end bits) = 11 520 bytes per second, i.e. 11.25 KB/s. Try to browse current Internet with even 50 KB/s. Perhaps only for small (atari) ftp downloads that would be enough.

[AdamK]

Also, one must remember that serial port in Falcon is not buffered. So if you would like to use it with Falcon, 115200 may be unstable. Some years ago, when I was actually using Falcon serial port for internet, at 115200 it was dropping so many packets, so when I switched to 57600 it was actually faster.

If you want it for ST, it can do only 19200, and it is soooo slooow.... I'm sure TT can do 15200, but I don't know if it is buffered or not.

Solution: get CosmosEx.

[wongck]

This is perhaps the most important fact -- 115200 (in best case scenario) makes literally 115200 / 10 (start+8+end bits) = 11 520 bytes per second, i.e. 11.25 KB/s. Try to browse current Internet with even 50 KB/s. Perhaps only for small (atari) ftp downloads that would be enough.

Yes, this is true. it is worst than 2G on the phone... and 2G is already really killing.

[lp]

The solution I used was this:
http://www.dlink.com/uk/en/support/prod ... ess-bridge

Only requirement is adding an ethernet port and internet stack to your Atari. This particular unit is no longer manufactured. A more up to date equivalent can be found. The TT030 was on my lan via wifi for a few years.

[Greenious]

Also, one must remember that serial port in Falcon is not buffered. So if you would like to use it with Falcon, 115200 may be unstable. Some years ago, when I was actually using Falcon serial port for internet, at 115200 it was dropping so many packets, so when I switched to 57600 it was actually faster.

If you want it for ST, it can do only 19200, and it is soooo slooow.... I'm sure TT can do 15200, but I don't know if it is buffered or not.

Solution: get CosmosEx.

While the speed aint great it's dirt cheap. And tbh, my intentions is not websurfing on Atari with this, it's more basic stuff like FTP, IRC etc.

Back in the days I had no problems connecting to BBS's at 57600 with an ST with hacked serial port. (I still got my USRobotics Courier v.everything stashed away somewhere... My first internetconnections were shell accounts, which worked well with my Atari at the time, however, I got a PC by the time surfing became a thing so I've never really used sting or any of the atari browsers.

And while PPP seem lacking with the ESP8266, there is a SLIP firmware for it.

https://github.com/martin-ger/esp_slip_ ... r/firmware

CosmosEx is certainly a solution for one Atari, but if you got more and want to hook more up than one it quickly turns rather expensive.

[mfro]

Back in the days I had no problems connecting to BBS's at 57600 with an ST with hacked serial port. (I still got my USRobotics Courier v.everything stashed away somewhere...

I would assume you don't need to keep that any longer - didn't try for a long time but I wouldn't expect it to work anymore on modern digital phone networks.

[joska]

We discussed all the options in a thread on a German Atari forum a while ago (when I built my ESP8266-based module) and the opinion there -- iirc -- was that the serial port was to slow for Internet access anyway.

I have not looked at the details, but the ESP8266 modules like NodeMCU have several GPIO pins. Why not connect it to the printer port and implement MiNTnet type PLIP? I got around 100Kb/s with PLIP between my TT and Falcon back in the day, which I believe is a usable speed.

[wongck]

Back in the days I had no problems connecting to BBS's at 57600 with an ST with hacked serial port. (I still got my USRobotics Courier v.everything stashed away somewhere...

Mine was shattered to a million pieces when I accidentally down it on the floor,
The plastics had become so yellow and brittle.

[czietz]

And while PPP seem lacking with the ESP8266, there is a SLIP firmware for it.

https://github.com/martin-ger/esp_slip_ ... r/firmware

Oh, that's interesting indeed. Last time I checked, there wasn't.

If I get the firmware above to work with the max. 19200 bit/s of my ST's serial port, I'll test if it works and how stable it is. Can anyone recommend an easy tutorial to setup a basic configuration for STinG that uses SLIP?

[Greenious]

I would assume you don't need to keep that any longer - didn't try for a long time but I wouldn't expect it to work anymore on modern digital phone networks.

LOL, no, now it's pretty much useless.

Back in the days I had no problems connecting to BBS's at 57600 with an ST with hacked serial port. (I still got my USRobotics Courier v.everything stashed away somewhere...

Mine was shattered to a million pieces when I accidentally down it on the floor,
The plastics had become so yellow and brittle.

Ahemm... I just realized mine is for sale...

[Greenious]

And while PPP seem lacking with the ESP8266, there is a SLIP firmware for it.

https://github.com/martin-ger/esp_slip_ ... r/firmware

Oh, that's interesting indeed. Last time I checked, there wasn't.

If I get the firmware above to work with the max. 19200 bit/s of my ST's serial port, I'll test if it works and how stable it is. Can anyone recommend an easy tutorial to setup a basic configuration for STinG that uses SLIP?

Cool!

Using my google-fu, I found this thread at a german site you are likely familiar with...

http://forum.atari-home.de/index.php?topic=6368.0

[christos]

If you turn off images, which won't look good on an atari anyway you can browse on 10KB/s. 2G on mobiles will try to load a lot more files, such as JS, Fonts etc, which won't work on the atari anyway, so the website becomes a lot smaller than what you'd get on a modern system. Using highwire you will essentially get something like what you'll get with lynx+css.

However, browsing on an atari will always be painful, regardless of the download speed. I think rendering will take longer than downloading. I don't think browsing will be the main focus, though it could be used for software repositories or looking something up online while coding without having to use the pc.

Now if it would have been easy to have a gem based text browser where you could use the mouse to follow links etc...

[Faucon2001]

Lynx has been ported to Atari long time ago. It's a text based web browser. I'll have to dig into my old links to find out who did it.

[czietz]

Cool!

Using my google-fu, I found this thread at a german site you are likely familiar with...

http://forum.atari-home.de/index.php?topic=6368.0

Phew! After downloading the ESP8266 toolchain, compiling it, installing it, downloading the SLIP firmware, adapting it for the Atari, compiling it and flashing it, and spending several hours for the entire process, I have a SLIP link that runs on 19200 bit/s -- with my Linux box. I simply cannot get it to work with STinG. Maybe I'm just too stupid or too tired to set it up correctly... Will try more tomorrow. PS: Thanks for the link, I'll also read it tomorrow.

[mikro]

Lynx has been ported to Atari long time ago. It's a text based web browser. I'll have to dig into my old links to find out who did it.

Didier.

[Faucon2001]

Of course

[wongck]

Ahemm... I just realized mine is for sale...

absolutely no use for me any more. The last free dial-up was removed decades ago by the ISP providers here.

[czietz]

Woohoo, I'm in! Though for the time being with the very limited KA9Q network stack. I'll still have to figure out how to get STinG to work.

IMG_2329.JPG

[Greenious]

Woohoo, I'm in! Though for the time being with the very limited KA9Q network stack. I'll still have to figure out how to get STinG to work.

IMG_2329.JPG

Awesome!

a $3 wifi solution... who would have thought that possible...

Only STinG left then, but SLIP is so old and I wonder if they really tested it's functionality in the last versions of STinG... might be broken. If you have no success I'll see if I can squeeze some info out of Ronald (who co-wrote it) next time I talk to him. Sadly he sold everything and completely left the scene some 10 years ago. Might be worthwhile checking documentation from stik(?), since I believe sting was derived/inspired by that previous SLIP stack...

[wongck]

getting some headway I see.

[christos]

Woohoo, I'm in! Though for the time being with the very limited KA9Q network stack. I'll still have to figure out how to get STinG to work.

IMG_2329.JPG

Awesome!

a $3 wifi solution... who would have thought that possible...

Only STinG left then, but SLIP is so old and I wonder if they really tested it's functionality in the last versions of STinG... might be broken. If you have no success I'll see if I can squeeze some info out of Ronald (who co-wrote it) next time I talk to him. Sadly he sold everything and completely left the scene some 10 years ago. Might be worthwhile checking documentation from stik(?), since I believe sting was derived/inspired by that previous SLIP stack...

Slip absolutely works with Sting. I've done it with a null modem cable:
http://atariage.com/forums/blog/199/ent ... ari-to-pc/

[czietz]

And now with STinG and CAB. I think the key was to load the HSMODEM serial drivers -- even though 19200 bit/s should also have worked right out the box, imho.
But I've already spent way too much time on this today. I'll see if I can write down some details about my setup during the following days.

IMG_2333.JPG