Large collection of unarchived software.

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1st1
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by 1st1 »

Falcon with HD drive is just fine, JayMSA works nice there.

USB-Floppy on PC is only slightly Ok as long as the ST diskette uses 720 kB format. USB floppy drives only support the 9 sectors 80 tracks layout. If you have 10,11 sectors or more than 80 tracks they fail in any case. But, many modern USB floppy only support the HD 1.44 MB format, not the 720 kb DD, you need old USB floppy drive. And, there is no tool for PC which can use USB floppy which can support *.ST or *.MSA format, you only will have a 1:1 image in IMG format ((Win-)dd, WinImage, ...) - that's not convinient for the Atari community - but better than nothing. File by file copy with these drives is also Ok if the drive still suports the 720kb format (as mentioned there are drives which only support 1.44 MB).

The only way to make it good and Atari community conform on a PC is using makedisk.exe on MS-DOS or floimg (from Pera Putnik) under Windows 2000..11 - but both of these solutions need a AT compatible floppy controller with a shugart bus driven floppy drive - USB floppy is not supported as it can not be controlled in RAW mode (USB floppy is a (SCSI like) block device like USB sticks). But even with that AT style floppy there might be issues, some of them can't suppport 11 sectors.

I imaged a lot of ST demo disks during the 1990's using makedisk on a MS-DOS laptop (Ovetti D33, TA Walkstation 386, this one even able to support the 11 sectors format), and forwarded them on several CDs to @brume, they are already part of the demo collection of the community since many years, like in brumes website and in fujilogy and so on.

As long as a diskette has no copy protection with broken sectors or stuff like that, ST and MSA (ST zip compressed) are the formats of choice. In the past STX was used for copy protected 1:1 raw images and nobody was able to write them back to diskette again. STX only was useable in PacifiST emulator, so very limited use case.

If you have archived a software file by file which only works from a: or b: drive (how stupid is that?) it still would be possible to write it back to a floppy disk.

Greasleweasle or Kyroflux mostly makes sense for real 1:1 raw copy for copy protected disks. But it requires to have that hardware. And I think they might be unuseable in a Gotek/HxC or even ST emulator?

For copy protected diskettes you might also think about using an Amiga computer (Jehova, Jehova!) with a raw disk image format over there (ADF), the Amiga always reads digital raw data stream from diskette and does the GCR / MFM decoding in RAM - so the Amiga has full control over the RAW data of the magnetical structures and can write that to an image file. You only need to find a comfortable way to transfer the file to your modern computer - maybe the simplest is having an Amiga 600/1200 with it's PCMCIA slot and CrossDos installed - so it can write the image files to a FAT formatted CF/SD card in a SD/CF to PCMCIA adapter. This Amiga capabillity basically is the way I did in the 1980/90s to make copies of copy protected disks (with the legendary X-Copy in nibble mode) - no crack of the ST game needed, just copy.
Last edited by 1st1 on Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Power without the Price. It's not a bug. It's a feature. _/|\_ATARI

1040STFM in PC-Tower (PAK68/2, OvrScn, 4 MB, 1GB SCSI, CD-ROM...) * 3x Falcon 030 * 3x TT030 * many 260 /520/1040ST(F)(M)(+) * 520/1040STE * many Mega ST * 2x Mega STE * Stacy * STBook * 2x SLM605 * 3x SLM804 * SMM804 * SH 204/205 * Megafile 30/44/60 * SF314 * SF354 * 5x Pofo * PC3 * ...
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by bj »

Hi. From your signature to your last post it looks like you have a removeable SD card set up for use with it. If so the simple way forward is to:
1. Make sure the SD card is formatted so it can be accessed by the Falcon & a PC. That's relatively simple.
2. On your Falcon using your preferred software / method back up your discs to the removeable SD card. JayMsa should work on the Falcon to produce MSA or ST files quite quickly.
3. Take your SD card & insert it into your PC's card reader. (if no dedicated card reader slot use a usb stick that has an SD card slot. They're not expensive & very handy. It's what I use for transferring files)
4. Copy your collection of MSA disk images to your PC. Label to taste. Hey Presto It's done!

Good luck!
regards
BJ
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by troed »

1st1 wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:42 pm Greasleweasle or Kyroflux mostly makes sense for real 1:1 raw copy for copy protected disks. But it requires to have that hardware. And I think they might be unuseable in a Gotek/HxC or even ST emulator?
Convert .scp to .msa:

Code: Select all

hxcfe -conv:ATARIST_MSA -finput:"disk.scp" -foutput:"disk.msa"
Convert protected .scp to .stx:

Code: Select all

hxcfe -conv:ATARIST_STX -finput:"disk.scp" -foutput:"disk.stx"
I do this automatically (and much more) when ripping to The Archives, using a GreaseWeasle: https://sync.wtf/archives/
hxcfe is part of the excellent HxC Software suite.

One of the advantages with ripping at the flux level is that careful analysis of the flux image might be able to restore content the ST/PC would not be able to read.

So, with facts now posted - can we get back on topic? If all the disks rip ok with a regular drive - fine. If not, let's get back to how we can aid with flux level tools and hw.

/Troed
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by KLund1 »

BJ:
Thanks that was what I was going to do. In fact, if you look back some of my old post you can see a pic that I have the SD card installed in such a way as that it sticks out a new slot I made in the back of my falcon. I have a CF card as Master, and the SD as salve and is my main method of moving files from PC/internet to/from the Falcon.
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by KLund1 »

Hello I am back to this again.
I have ran almost all the programs listing post 1. Almost all of them have a copy protection on the disks. Many do not like my Falcon.
So what are my options to make usable disk images? I do not mind spending a little money if needed. But I do not want to have to compile my own software from github. (I still do not understand how that site works) I would prefer a plug and play option, but that rarely happens in this hobby! But downloading(buying ok, free better) and running software.
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by KLund1 »

I am trying jaymsa for a couple disks and it crashes. But I have never used this before so I am doing it wrong.
I run the program from c:\msa.
I put in a disk I want to image.
I select Disk, and then select Compress. -A- A is default checked.
On the next screen 'Compress Disk' I leave it all as is. click OK.
The a file selector opens. Select MS File. well i have not made one yet. I see the C drive is selected. I type in TEST and click ok and the program freezes, and locks up the whole machine. The FD light did not light.

These is no 'instructions' but I found this
https://lowresmag.wordpress.com/2009/12 ... -atari-st/
I helped get me to the point where I crash the computer. I unchecked the CRC Sum button, and get the same result.

What am I doing wrong?
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by 1st1 »

So it freezes before startimg to read the disk? That does not mean there is a copy protection on the disk. It's something else. But what?

Are you able to read the disks from the desktop, open disk, open folder, open/execute files?
What kind of programs do you have in your c:\auto folder in your Falcon harddisk?
Which kind of *.acc do you have in your root of c:\ drive?
What happens if you give the target image file a more sensefull filename, like <insert_the_application-name>.msa?
Power without the Price. It's not a bug. It's a feature. _/|\_ATARI

1040STFM in PC-Tower (PAK68/2, OvrScn, 4 MB, 1GB SCSI, CD-ROM...) * 3x Falcon 030 * 3x TT030 * many 260 /520/1040ST(F)(M)(+) * 520/1040STE * many Mega ST * 2x Mega STE * Stacy * STBook * 2x SLM605 * 3x SLM804 * SMM804 * SH 204/205 * Megafile 30/44/60 * SF314 * SF354 * 5x Pofo * PC3 * ...
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by KLund1 »

Thanks for the reply.
Yes, it freezes before ready the disk.
This is a 'fresh' install of HDDriver 11.x
There is nothing the Auto folder but HDDriver.
I can copy files from target disks to c:
I did not use the .msa extension.
The program 'seems' to do that in the files selector. But is usually shows ".ms?" in the top line.
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by KLund1 »

1st1 wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:21 pm So it freezes before startimg to read the disk? yesThat does not mean there is a copy protection on the disk. It's something else. But what?

Are you able to read the disks from the desktop, open disk, open folder, open/execute files?yes
What kind of programs do you have in your c:\auto folder in your Falcon harddisk?only HDDriver.sys
Which kind of *.acc do you have in your root of c:\ drive?none. using a fresh cf card for all this. the drive is empty
What happens if you give the target image file a more sensefull filename, like <insert_the_application-name>.msa?no change in how it freezes
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by Grazey / PHF »

You could try my Trans D-Bug Express

Works fine on my F030 and TT.

http://d-bug.me/releases/tde_105.zip
http://phf.atari.org - demo coders since 1983
http://sndh.atari.org - Maintainer of the Atari ST chip music archive
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by KLund1 »

Grazey;
I would really like to try TDE. But my Norton 360 will not let me download it. Even it is turn all settings 'off' that I known about, it still will not let me download. Also they seem to not like your site. I have to jump through a few hoops to get access to it.
Would you be kind enough to post the file here?
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by Grazey / PHF »

Haha. Well we are a hacking site after all

Try

https://demozoo.org/productions/285209/

There’s another url

Cheers
http://phf.atari.org - demo coders since 1983
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by 1st1 »

So find it here and let us know the result.
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Power without the Price. It's not a bug. It's a feature. _/|\_ATARI

1040STFM in PC-Tower (PAK68/2, OvrScn, 4 MB, 1GB SCSI, CD-ROM...) * 3x Falcon 030 * 3x TT030 * many 260 /520/1040ST(F)(M)(+) * 520/1040STE * many Mega ST * 2x Mega STE * Stacy * STBook * 2x SLM605 * 3x SLM804 * SMM804 * SH 204/205 * Megafile 30/44/60 * SF314 * SF354 * 5x Pofo * PC3 * ...
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by KLund1 »

Hello,
I'm back to this topic again.
I wish to report that I think I am having success.
I finally figured out getting my Falcon to recognize my CF and SD cards again at the same time. The master/slave micro switch on the SD card reader must have had some oxidation inside. I could not get the master slave combination working between the 2 cards. After a lot of frustration moving switch, jumper, cable swaps, card swaps, several HDDriver version, the only thing left was this little switch. A squirt of Deoxit, and then the world was back to normal !
Great. Now trying to archive a copy protected disk. I downloaded all the above files (MANY THANKS BY THE WAY !!!!) to the the SD card. Moved it over to the Falcon, and tried each. I can not get either of the JAY programs to work. But tde worked the first time. I made a MSA backup of View II
I loaded up STEEM SSE 4.02 on my main PC and and was able to load and run the backup MSA copy perfectly.
I also made a copy of the manual, though it needs a little work still.
I have attached them here.
Could someone try my backup copy to see if it works with your system, and report back?
Once again many thanks to everyone input and help!
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UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by Showaddywaddy »

Glad TDE did the trick :)

Shw
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by bj »

KLund1 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 7:21 am I made a MSA backup of View II
I loaded up STEEM SSE 4.02 on my main PC and and was able to load and run the backup MSA copy perfectly.
I also made a copy of the manual, though it needs a little work still.
Hi - thanks. I remember View II from way back. I tried your MSA backup using Steem & Tos 2.06. Running the installation prog it flags up the disk as probably damaged. The installation prog seems to work and it even successfully installs the boot prog to the system. However for each of the various TOS programs it attempts to install it repeatedly flags up a disk may be damaged alert & each of them is not installed. Where you able to successfully install View II on your test system & if so what Tos version etc did you use. This was / is a excellent utility, well worth preserving. Thanks for trying & for the manual.
regards
BJ
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Re: Large collection of unarchived software.

Post by troed »

If we're talking about software that seems to exist nowhere else - _please_ get a flux archiving solution. A Greaseweazle is a few quid and will use your existing floppy drive just fine.
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