Large collection of unarchived software.

[KLund1]

I have received a large lot of ST application software.
I did some quick lookups in here, Atari Mania, and google.
I did not see much of this collection archived. About 55 titles. Sometimes there were earlier or later versions of what I have. Atari Mania had entries for most, but no downloads and manuals. A few where mentioned in here.
Below is a list of what I can't find (and .xls attachment). If they are archived somewhere else I won't bother with them. Could see what is save.
I would like to archive the rest to AtariMania. That seems, at least to me, the easiest place to look up and download Atari software. How do I send them files?
A few questions on how to archive:
How best to scan the manuals. All are 8.5"x5.5" folded/stapled in the middle manuals. I can take the staple out and scan the full 8.5x11 sheet both sides through the ADF to pdf. But then how to cut all those pages in half? I have Acrobat 8.0pro but it can't slip a page. Thoughts, suggestions?
How to archive the disks? I do not have any of the Kroflux stuff. Just a Falcon and USD drive with HDDriver 9.x. Some of the programs in the collection say they can backup protected disks. I'll try those. Some will probably be ok with just a simple copy. What about the stubborn disks?

Name Publisher Version Notes
A-Calc Antic ?
Action Pak 4 in 1 Action Software ?
BackTALK Gribnif Software Manual only Stalker scripting language
Calligrapher CodeHead Software Demo Disk
CardFile 2.0 GT Software No disk
CardFile 4 GT Software 4.01, & 4.01,2,3,4 Patch disk
CodeKeys CodeHead Software ? Preliminary and regular manuals
Copy II ST Central Point Software ?
Data Diet Double Click Software 1.00
Data Rescue Trace Technologies ?
DataLite 2 Oregon Research ?
DC Desktop Double Click Software 1.02f 1sr & 2nd manual versions
DC Utilities 2.0 Double Click Software 2.0f 1sr & 2nd manual versions
EdHak 2.3 Clear Thinking 3.00 See Edit Pro
Edit Pro Hybrid Arts 1.0 Demo Update to EdHak
E-Z Calc Royal Software ?
FAST Migaph Inc ? Desk accessories
GramSlam Wintertree Software Grammar & Style checker
Harlekin 2 HiSoft ?
Hot Wire CodeHead Software ? 1.0, 1.3 manuals
ImageCopy 2 ST Club ?
Informer Soft-Aware 1.00
Informer II Soft-Aware 2.01 5 disks, Well done Photocopy 8.5x11 manual
K-Switch Kuma Computers 1.00 Program switcher
Lookit & Popit CodeHead Software ?
Maxi File CodeHead Software 1.00
Maxi File III CodeHead Software Manual only
M-Disk Michtron 1.00
Mi-Print Michtron ?
Newdesk Icon CPX Software Development Systems 2.15
Quick Link II Smith Mico Software ?
Quick ST 3.0 Brank Always Software 3.04 2 disks
Quick ST II Brank Always Software ?
Quick Tools Volume 1 Brank Always Software ?
Regent Spell Regent Software 1.00 small paper manual
Regent Word Regent Software 1.00 small paper manual
Revolver Intersect Sotware ? Program switcher
Rhythm Softechnics ? Mini spreadsheet calc acc
Screenblaster Overscan Patrick Jerchel Falcon resolution enhancement driver, hardware not with this disk
Shadow Antic ?
Slicctop Sliccware 1.05 Multitasking
Soft Spool Michtron ?
Spell Sentry Wintertree Software ?
Squish II Trace Technologies 2.00
Steno Gribnif Software 2.00
Straigh Fax! 2.0 NewStar Technology Management ?
Style Zorca Technologies 1.00 Image manipulator
Sudden View Sudden Inc Demo, Student, Master 3 version disks
Super Directory Michtron ?
That's Write Compo Software 3.1?? 4 disks Ver 2 Manual .w ver 3.1 Addendum
TurboJet Neocept 2.00 HP Laser& Deskjet printer driver
Ultimate Virus Killer Oregon Research 5.9
View II DMJ Software ?
Warp 9 3.8 Addendum CodeHead Software Manual only
Warp 9 Extend-O-Pak CodeHead Software ? disk only

[kodak80]

Atarimania.com has some information here for contributing: http://forum.atarimania.com/viewtopic.php?t=2527

They have an FTP upload server and Filezilla can upload easily.

You can use their FTP to upload contributions:
ftp.atarimania.com
user : atarimania
pwd : atarimaniaftp

Use the folder ST for 16+ bit contributions

[1st1]

And the interesting question is now: how to bulk download?

[dlfrsilver]

I would advise you to buy a Greasleweasle, that you will connect on PC in USB. It's cheap, and works very well ! And you can dump in Kryoflux and SCP formats if you want.

[ThorstenOtto]

I have Acrobat 8.0pro but it can't slip a page. Thoughts, suggestions?

Maybe try PDF24 (freely available)

[1st1]

I would advise you to buy a Greasleweasle, that you will connect on PC in USB. It's cheap, and works very well ! And you can dump in Kryoflux and SCP formats if you want.

For unprotected disks I prefer st and msa format because that is extractable without extra hardware, just with software like jaymsa and floimg. All of the software in the list should be unprotected as it is harddisk useable.

[ijor]

I would advise you to buy a Greasleweasle, that you will connect on PC in USB. It's cheap, and works very well ! And you can dump in Kryoflux and SCP formats if you want.

For unprotected disks I prefer st and msa format because that is extractable without extra hardware, just with software like jaymsa and floimg. All of the software in the list should be unprotected as it is harddisk useable.

A low level image is always better for preservation purposes, even if the disk is completely unprotected. A Greasleweasle costs close to nothing.

[1st1]

Anyhow it is extra hardware which is not available at every corner. ST and MSA files just can be extracted or generated by software, can be used in any ST emulator, can be written and generated on every Windows machine with real floppy drive (no USB) using FloIMg (from Pera Putnik), on any MS-DOS machine using makedisk.exe or on any ST, TT, Falcon, STacy using JayMSAand so on. And if I look into my collection of about roughly 1TB of ST software, into the disk image folder which mostly holds games, demos, menu disks, application and tool disks and so on, it*s mostly ST and MSA, sometimes STX. Noone does greaslewaske or kyroflux.

[gstoll]

But then how to cut all those pages in half? I have Acrobat 8.0pro but it can't slip a page. Thoughts, suggestions?

I use ScanTailor, but you need for this the images.

https://scantailor.org/

[ThorstenOtto]

A low level image is always better for preservation purposes, even if the disk is completely unprotected. A Greasleweasle costs close to nothing.

And why? I can't see a reason to use a flux dump for discs that are not protected. ST/MSA are readable everywhere, such dumps aren't.

[calimero]

I did not see much of this collection archived. About 55 titles. Sometimes there were earlier or later versions of what I have. Atari Mania had entries for most, but no downloads and manuals. A few where mentioned in here.

You could check my archive web site: http://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/

I did try to make it easy to upload new stuff as possible. With screen shots, videos and additional information.
Here is short video tutorial: https://odysee.com/@zarjesve2:9/my-atar ... -archive:7

How best to scan the manuals. All are 8.5"x5.5" folded/stapled in the middle manuals. I can take the staple out and scan the full 8.5x11 sheet both sides through the ADF to pdf. But then how to cut all those pages in half? I have Acrobat 8.0pro but it can't slip a page. Thoughts, suggestions?

If you have Mac OS then use Preview.app - it is fantastic tool for PDF manipulation.

And the interesting question is now: how to bulk download?

From my site you can do:

Code: Select all

wget --recursive --page-requisites --adjust-extension --convert-links --no-clobber --no-parent --domains=milan.kovac.cc http://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ --restrict-file-names=ascii

or I can make and share public FTP account for downloading only.

And if I look into my collection of about roughly 1TB of ST software

1TB or 1GB?

[1st1]

Not GB... It already includes the software from your website as a backup. And many more...

[ijor]

Anyhow it is extra hardware which is not available at every corner. ST and MSA files just can be extracted or generated by software, can be used in any ST emulator, can be written and generated on every Windows machine with real floppy drive (no USB) using FloIMg (from Pera Putnik), on any MS-DOS machine using makedisk.exe or on any ST, TT, Falcon, STacy using JayMSAand so on.

I would say that nowadays a Greasleweasle is available in as many corners, if not more, as old PCs with a real old school floppy interface. Furthermore, some unprotected disks can't be read by Floimg because of limitations of the PC FDC.

We are talking about preservation. You can always convert flux level images to ST/MSA images if you find them more convenient.

And if I look into my collection of about roughly 1TB of ST software, into the disk image folder which mostly holds games, demos, menu disks, application and tool disks and so on, it*s mostly ST and MSA, sometimes STX. Noone does greaslewaske or kyroflux.

Such a collection, as nice or useful it could be, has nothing to do with preservation. It seems you simply don't understand the concept.

And why? I can't see a reason to use a flux dump for discs that are not protected. ST/MSA are readable everywhere, such dumps aren't.

Again, we are talking about preservation purposes. You can use whatever you want, as many people prefer to use cracks or hard disk adaptation instead of the original copy protected (or not) software. But when we preserve software, we want to preserve it as close to the original and with as much detail as possible.

A low level image might contain extra data that could be interesting, such as a duplication signature, track sector interleave, etc.

And once more again, you can always convert an unprotected low level image to ST/MSA. You don't need any hardware at all for doing that. But you can't the other way around, not with the original information.

Of course that a simple image is better than nothing. Sometimes is all we have. But still, for preservation purposes, a low level image is much better.

[ThorstenOtto]

you can always convert an unprotected low level image to ST/MSA. You don't need any hardware at all for doing that.

Hm, and how? And how do you know whether such a dump originally had some copy protection?

[1st1]

if not more, as old PCs with a real old school floppy interface.

No problem for me, I have plenty of them.

[ijor]

you can always convert an unprotected low level image to ST/MSA. You don't need any hardware at all for doing that.

Hm, and how?

There are several ways to do that. You can even do that under emulation. Steem can mount an SCP image which you can copy to a virtual ST/MSA disk image.

And how do you know whether such a dump originally had some copy protection?

And how do you know that, when you are attempting to produce an ST/MSA image from a physical disk in the first place? There is no trivial way. There are some tools that can analyze an image and might detect a protection. But they are not foolproof. Ultimately you have to rely on the analysis of an expert. This is true both for an image or a physical disk. But again, it is much easier to work on the image. Let alone the practical difficulties to bring the physical disk to somebody that can perform the analysis.

[ijor]

if not more, as old PCs with a real old school floppy interface.

No problem for me, I have plenty of them.

You don't seem to listen. Some unprotected ST disks can't be read on a PC. Having plenty PCs with a floppy interface won't help for those disks.

[1st1]

Yes, some PC can not read 11 sectors. But, how many original application disks are such special format? Games and demos might be other thing, but I rarely have issues, then I can fallback on my TT, STacy, or whatever. For applications like above list no one cares about interleave or what ever, it is the application which counts to be preserved. My in Scarmagno, Italy made PC for that kind of tasks has Adaptec 1542A SCSI controller which has a very good floppy controller which can read many specialities like 11 sectors, FM, etc.

[ijor]

For applications like above list no one cares about interleave or what ever, it is the application which counts to be preserved.

You might not care, but most of us that deal with preservation certainly do. So please don't attribute yourself the right to claim what others care or not.

[bj]

KLund1: "How to archive the disks? I do not have any of the Kroflux stuff. Just a Falcon and USD drive with HDDriver 9.x. Some of the programs in the collection say they can backup protected disks. I'll try those. Some will probably be ok with just a simple copy. What about the stubborn disks?"
I suggest going back to the post from the person that started it! The guy is offering to archive lots of stuff & asking for advice. His post suggests a "horses for courses" type approach which I strongly recommend Given that he currently has possibility to "back up" many of the disks which probably won't be "protected" I think that's a very useful first step & MSA format or ST would be quick & convenient to produce & for many to access n use. For the more difficult to copy disks then the more complex approaches to disk preservation may produce useable "images". If their are disks that of particular interest for full preservation then because of interesting formats or copy protection techniques - those interested in that could flag them up. Surely it's not an "either this or that" situation but what works & helps this guy in his enthusiasm to contribute.

[KLund1]

Thanks everyone.
bj has it right from my point of view and current ability.
greasleweasle cost $35+ship, and I don't know how to use github for the programs. Most of the stuff posted is above my pay-grade currently. There are alot of programs and I do not want to spend hours on each.
I was just going to make a folder for each program on the USD and copy the disk there, and run it. If it works, great.If not try one of the backup programs see what happens.
Next upload what I can to Atarimania with the manual.
That Scan Tailor seem just right for what I need.

[ijor]

I was just going to make a folder for each program on the USD and copy the disk there, and run it. If it works, great.If not try one of the backup programs see what happens.

I'm not sure this is a good idea. Copying disks by files might not work in many cases. It might fail even if the disk has no actual copy protection. Furthermore, it might be not that simple to test it because it might fail in subtle ways or in certain situations. Backup programs that make a copy to another disk won't be helpful.

I you don't want to use any special hardware, then making a "simple" unprotected MSA image it is probably the easiest reliable solution, for unprotected disks at least. You can use JayMSA to produce MSA images right on the ST.

[1st1]

Ijor wrote:

I'm not sure this is a good idea. Copying disks by files might not work in many cases. It might fail even if the disk has no actual copy protection.

KLund1 wrote:

I was just going to make a folder for each program on the USD and copy the disk there, and run it. If it works, great.If not try one of the backup programs see what happens.

I think this is a good method for testing, isn*t it?

[ijor]

KLund1 wrote:

I was just going to make a folder for each program on the USD and copy the disk there, and run it. If it works, great.If not try one of the backup programs see what happens.

I think this is a good method for testing, isn*t it?

As I said already, a simple "run and see if it works" is definitely not conclusive. The program might work, or seem to work, but might fail under some circumstances. The other way around, a "false negative", is also possible. Some of those very old utilities were not designed to run from a hard disk and might fail simply because they expect to be run from drive A:. They might work again if you copy back the files to a floppy.

But anyway, this is the worst possible way to preserve those titles. It doesn't take much more to make an MSA/ST image instead of copying the files.

[KLund1]

Make a MSA/ST seems to be the 'preferred' way to archive ST software.
How dose one make them on the ST or Win10 PC? I only have a Falcon or USB 1.44 USB 3.5' drives available.
Some reading indicates i need a 'tween' PC like a working win98 unit. I have no plans to build one or have the parts.