Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

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Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-dOecvjSMY

Mentioned here, I can't find it anywhere!

Does anyone know anything about this?

http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/kandi ... inter/2360

Found a clue: ST Club disk MID 50
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by Atari74user »

I remember buying that Music Technology magazine back in the day, still have it somewhere, it's what made me buy Breakthru, and like you, interested in Kandinsky Music Painter. The UI is nice! It can often be abbreviated to KMP, sometimes Keys KMP. I believe it was also on a Goodmans PD Disk in the UK. Just doing a search, Goodmans Music 9. Anyway, it is among my stuff, early v0.1 version and in German, see attached. I am not sure if there is an English version? Also, link to one of the programmers: https://www.cvr-net.de/arbeiten/software/

Looks like there is also a KMP II, slides here, maybe not for Atari and only Windows as Youtube video!: https://uol.de/f/2/dept/informatik/ag/p ... tation.pdf
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

Wow, thanks. Didn't think I'd get a chance to try it. It runs on my UltraSatan running EmuTOS and the keyboard sounds when I add a graphic.

Just gotta figure out the play button. Fantastic!

The article says to use MIDI Magnet found on Goodman's disk GD915 to save the generated music.

Yeah, the German guy who has a working ST shows it and says 1990
Screenshot 2021-04-02 171836.jpg
Have you heard of MIDI Magnet?
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by Atari74user »

It's a pretty pleasing bit of software, nice! I have never used it with any meaning, but I should, I am starting to get more into improv or generative music techniques which break away form traditional concepts. As far as MIDI Magnet, I saw the mention of that, I'll have a look around, but I do have an official copy of a program called MIDI Spy, that should do a similar thing. It also can run as an Accessory, and records MIDI events in the background, so should work. I'll have to try this out too! Here is a link to MIDI Spy: http://atari-music.fddvoron.name/codehead.htm

Actually, you may want to check out the Algorithmic Applications section from the same mirrored TAMW site as the link above: http://atari-music.fddvoron.name/timidi.htm. Some useful little tools!
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

Thanks for this. Will check it out. My head is mangled right now. :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVx41xYkrOc

I just made this from just using the spray tool to write my own name and it sound Stockhauseny. :lol:

A friend did this using a DAW recently. I'm only interested in JackDAWs.

Would it be okay for me to share the program files over on the Exxos Forum?
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by Rustynutt »

Thanks for this :) Trip down STfm memory lane.
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by Atari74user »

Rustynutt wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:06 pm Thanks for this :) Trip down STfm memory lane.
No problem, I was actually looking for this last year, turns out I had it hiding away anyway!
:cheers:
CosmicPuppet wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:52 pm Thanks for this. Will check it out. My head is mangled right now. :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVx41xYkrOc

I just made this from just using the spray tool to write my own name and it sound Stockhauseny. :lol:

A friend did this using a DAW recently. I'm only interested in JackDAWs.

Would it be okay for me to share the program files over on the Exxos Forum?
Equally, no problem at all, feel free! Hahah, good work, sounds like it could adorn a Horror flick. I'll sleep with one eye open tonight!
:cheers:
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

[/quote]
Equally, no problem at all, feel free! Hahah, good work, sounds like it could adorn a Horror flick. I'll sleep with one eye open tonight!
:cheers:
[/quote]

Yeah. Nice scenery turns into "Okay where did you bury it?" :lol:

Thank you! :cheers:
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by Rustynutt »

Excuse my ignorance :)
That isn't being played just by putting the graphic on the screen is it?
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

Rustynutt wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:13 pm Excuse my ignorance :)
That isn't being played just by putting the graphic on the screen is it?
It is yeah. :lol:

I've been translating the manual today. Will hopefully get it finished today and share it.

I didn't know so mangled my head words by just having in the wrong place could get. :lol:
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

Atari74user wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:34 pm It's a pretty pleasing bit of software, nice! I have never used it with any meaning, but I should, I am starting to get more into improv or generative music techniques which break away form traditional concepts. As far as MIDI Magnet, I saw the mention of that, I'll have a look around, but I do have an official copy of a program called MIDI Spy, that should do a similar thing. It also can run as an Accessory, and records MIDI events in the background, so should work. I'll have to try this out too! Here is a link to MIDI Spy: http://atari-music.fddvoron.name/codehead.htm

Actually, you may want to check out the Algorithmic Applications section from the same mirrored TAMW site as the link above: http://atari-music.fddvoron.name/timidi.htm. Some useful little tools!
I can't use Accessories as Notator hates them! Unleases all kinds of hell on my setup. :lol:
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by Atari74user »

Yeah Notator SL is picky with Accessories, Logic is better for that, as is Cubase. However you won't be using Notator when using KMP along with MIDI Spy. You should then be able to load the MIDI file recorded with MIDI Spy when using KMP into Notator, depending if you are using Notator 2.0 onwards. Then when you don't need to use the Accessory, you just disable it, either manually by changing the .ACC file extension to .ACX, or by using a boot manager, it's the benefits of a boot manager, to suit different set ups on boot up. Also, you would use the stated MIDI Magnet in the same way, as an Accessory.
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by Atari74user »

Here we go, MIDI Magnet, it's a very simple programme, I prefer MIDI Spy. However it is a demo version, but the only difference to the registered is that the capture size is limited. As per previous post, it is an Accessory.
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

Brilliant! Thank you!

I couldn't get MIDI Spy to work, though admittedly I don't know what I'm doing. :P
20210408_003625Smaller.jpg
20210408_003616Smaller.jpg
I was able to put it on a floppy disk as a .ACC

Turns out there's a few visual anomalies when using Kandinsky Music Painter with my EmuTOS 1.0/NVDI 2.51 set up.

When I first tried running Kandinsky Music Painter from a Floppy Disk which uses my TOS 1.04 ROMS I had the Atari's click going beserk.

Thankfully I had this problem on my machine running Notator SL 3.21 a while back (Could just be my board's revision) and someone gave me a program called clicksoff.
CLICKOFF.zip
Installing this program in the AUTO folder on my floppy disk has sorted it and it's now extremely stable! 8)

I've had a rough week so haven't finished the manual yet but extremely close and it's looking great. Just need to do a final read through when I have a brain.

Wouldn't do that again! :lol:
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

Just tried MIDI Magnet. No luck with that. Do I need a multitasking desktop to use these programs?
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by Atari74user »

Hi, not necessarily, to use either MIDI Magnet or MIDI Spy alongside KMP, you will have 2 choices, possibly 3:

1. Both MIDI Magnet and MIDI Spy are predominantly ACCessories as you know. Yes Notator SL is picky with .ACCs, however you can use a boot loader to load different set ups, one for Notator SL without any .ACCs loaded for example, and other set ups for other programmes complete with .ACCs etc... This is probably the most versatile set up you can have, given Notator is particular.
2. A multi-tasking desktop where the extension for either MIDI Magnet or MIDI Spy is changed from .ACC to .PRG so you can run them as programmes outright, alongside KMP. However I imagine Notator SL will not like a multi-tasking desktop at all as it is very picky with everything else.

There may be an option 3, with Notator SL you may be able to use SoftLink to launch both Notator SL and KMP and record KMP events straight in Notator. SoftLink being C-Lab's answer to a pseudo multi-tasking environment, much like MROS is for Steinberg, or HybriSwitch for the Hybrid Arts suite...

http://www.notator.org/html/notator_faq.html#sl

A few things to try out.
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by Atari74user »

CosmicPuppet wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:16 am Brilliant! Thank you!

I couldn't get MIDI Spy to work, though admittedly I don't know what I'm doing. :P

20210408_003625Smaller.jpg

20210408_003616Smaller.jpg

I was able to put it on a floppy disk as a .ACC

Turns out there's a few visual anomalies when using Kandinsky Music Painter with my EmuTOS 1.0/NVDI 2.51 set up.

When I first tried running Kandinsky Music Painter from a Floppy Disk which uses my TOS 1.04 ROMS I had the Atari's click going beserk.

Thankfully I had this problem on my machine running Notator SL 3.21 a while back (Could just be my board's revision) and someone gave me a program called clicksoff. CLICKOFF.zip

Installing this program in the AUTO folder on my floppy disk has sorted it and it's now extremely stable! 8)

I've had a rough week so haven't finished the manual yet but extremely close and it's looking great. Just need to do a final read through when I have a brain.

Wouldn't do that again! :lol:
Didn't see this post, but that is interesting, never had that. CLICKOFF, I'll have to remember that just in case. Ah, so it looks like you are running everything from floppy? So I can see limitations given my last post. The best way may possibly be to try and use KMP alongside Notator SL using SoftLink!

Having said that, leaving Notator out of it for a minute, the other thing, both MIDI Magnet or MIDI Spy as .ACCs should be on the same disk as your boot disk, just in the root, at the same level as your AUTO folder, not in it. You can folder them off for neatness, but you need another programme to do that. Not sure if you are doing that? Then run KMP.
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

I couldn't get any of that to work. I'd need to see it in action to understand. I just ended up with a 1 in the top of the screen but still not sure how to get 2 things running at once. I have to close one program to open another and then can't record the MIDI because it's not open. :lol:

I'm a visual learner. I intend to get a capture device and demonstrate all the things I have working and show everything. I only knew about Music Mouse and Kandinsky Music Painter because of the German dude on Youtube.

I got the 2 partitions in LInkedit and then ran softlink but still no joy. Only sadness and frustration... :lol:
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by Eero Tamminen »

CosmicPuppet wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:16 am Turns out there's a few visual anomalies when using Kandinsky Music Painter with my EmuTOS 1.0/NVDI 2.51 set up.
Do they happen also with latest EmuTOS snapshot?

Or if you don't use NVDI?

If both, could you attach pic of the problem and what it should instead?
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

Rustynutt wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:13 pm Excuse my ignorance :)
That isn't being played just by putting the graphic on the screen is it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKUNUuuHk-U
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

Eero Tamminen wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:23 pm
CosmicPuppet wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:16 am Turns out there's a few visual anomalies when using Kandinsky Music Painter with my EmuTOS 1.0/NVDI 2.51 set up.
Do they happen also with latest EmuTOS snapshot?

Or if you don't use NVDI?

If both, could you attach pic of the problem and what it should instead?
Will do. I've been sorting out a Greaseweasle after translating a german manual so my head is backed up with stuff to do. :lol:

I'm on it. Got an issue with Music Mouse too and can't run it from floppy disk because it's so unstable.

Overall everything is moving along amazingly.

I plan to post proper videos in the future.
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by Rustynutt »

CosmicPuppet wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:46 am
Rustynutt wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:13 pm Excuse my ignorance :)
That isn't being played just by putting the graphic on the screen is it?
by

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKUNUuuHk-U
That is just to awesome for someone like me! Need to find play time :)

Can the player import different graphic formats, 3d2, gif?
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by Atari74user »

I had a little play with KMP along with MIDI Magnet and MIDI Spy, and yes as you say, they don't seem to play together with KMP. Not sure why, as both MIDI Magnet and MIDI Spy are supposed to run in the background and record MIDI events only coming into the Atari MIDI In. However both are OK when recording events when for example, playing your synth physically, just not via KMP when both are closed, although they should because they should be running in the background. However I may need to check MIDI Receive and Transmit channels on my synth too, I personally didn't bother. Or the trouble could possibly be with this version of KMP, as, as soon as you hit play, it is locked, and you can't move the mouse pointer to say open up an ACC. Meh...for me however, I can record what KMP plays via the sequencer on my synth. That's another possibility for example, if you have a synth with an onboard sequencer.
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

Atari74user wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:01 pm I had a little play with KMP along with MIDI Magnet and MIDI Spy, and yes as you say, they don't seem to play together with KMP. Not sure why, as both MIDI Magnet and MIDI Spy are supposed to run in the background and record MIDI events only coming into the Atari MIDI In. However both are OK when recording events when for example, playing your synth physically, just not via KMP when both are closed, although they should because they should be running in the background. However I may need to check MIDI Receive and Transmit channels on my synth too, I personally didn't bother. Or the trouble could possibly be with this version of KMP, as, as soon as you hit play, it is locked, and you can't move the mouse pointer to say open up an ACC. Meh...for me however, I can record what KMP plays via the sequencer on my synth. That's another possibility for example, if you have a synth with an onboard sequencer.
Thanks for confirming that. My recieve was switched as I got a lot of issues with MIDI especially if I had MIDI thru on (that would brick Notator) . I have receive things off as I find none of the patch changes are relavant unless I use general MIDI (which is a running joke on sound quality lol)

I'll check that though.

As you say after reading Laurie Spiegel's Music Mouse notes, I tried using my keyboard's 8 Track short sequencer with Music Mouse and it can export as MIDI onto the plugged in USB. I will try this with KMP. You can save what you've done though and it will play back note for note which is good and you can mess with different sounds. I'll try all this out very soon. I have a floppy disk drive I can swap these MIDI files from PC to Atari with now. Don't like swapping small files with my UltraSatan's SD cards as the cards can corrupt.
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Re: Kandinsky Music Painter (not to be confused with Kandinsky like I did)

Post by CosmicPuppet »

Rustynutt wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:23 pm
CosmicPuppet wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:46 am
Rustynutt wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:13 pm Excuse my ignorance :)
That isn't being played just by putting the graphic on the screen is it?
by

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKUNUuuHk-U
That is just to awesome for someone like me! Need to find play time :)

Can the player import different graphic formats, 3d2, gif?
There's nothing in the manual about that. That would be awesome. I'm wondering if some Atari to USB drawing board could work?
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