freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

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JeanMars
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by JeanMars »

Hi,

rare I surf from Mint but I use Netsurf. Some sites (including this one!) do not work with it however.
ThorstenOtto
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by ThorstenOtto »

When using Aranym, i also would recommend netsurf. All others (CAB, HighWire) have even more problems displaying modern content, or aren't even able to connect because of SSL.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by Playmobil »

Playmobil
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by Playmobil »

peacok wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:05 pm
....and i search a snapshot of freemint 1-17 now, have you one? or the source, i don't found in the internet....
No need of 1.17 Mint for Netsurf... For sure !!! Look at Faucon2001 release of easyaramint... Mint is 1.19 and NetSurf work great !
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by Playmobil »

peacok wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:19 pm pls have you me a dl for a rom or so... ? also a hd img or so... that i can copy out?
just here : https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... asyaramint
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by mikro »

Netsurf doesn't work with memory protection enabled, unfortunately.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by ThorstenOtto »

That message is still there since the sources were originally imported i think ;) There are unfortunately lots of programs that still don't work with memory protection, so i doubt this will ever be made mandatory.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by mikro »

Also: feel free to use "aranym-jit" instead of "aranym", you'll get a much faster Atari that way. ;)
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by joska »

mikro wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:48 am Netsurf doesn't work with memory protection enabled, unfortunately.
Since when? It is working with memory protection enabled on my Milan060.

Edit: I have a really old version on my Milan, 2.9 from 2012. I have not tested later versions.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by mikro »

I guess that would be the reason. ;) I have tested the latest builds on Aranym, MP must be disabled. What is not only a shame but also pretty strange for a GEM app.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by ThorstenOtto »

I guess they have implemented some protocol after 2012 (eg. VA-protocol), but did not take care to use Mxalloc. Maybe setting the program flags to readable or global will fix that.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by Lostboysix »

"Also: feel free to use "aranym-jit" instead of "aranym", you'll get a much faster Atari that way. ;)"

One personal advice for all windows users. The latest aranym-jit version is broken. It doesn´t start many programs and has a lot of issues. If you want to use jit than use 0.9.16. Otherwise use the standard or mmu version.

Oliver also explained this in his guide/setup: http://aranym.lutece.net/
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by ThorstenOtto »

Lostboysix wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:36 pm One personal advice for all windows users. The latest aranym-jit version is broken.
What makes you think so? Look at Vincents video, where he installed freemint snapshot and aranym with just a few clicks. No problem.

One personal advice from me. If such comments really result in people using 20 years old versions instead current snapshots, then i will immediately stop support.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by elliot »

Just an idea but you could try http://frogfind.com/ and do a search for the sites you want to view, then clicking that link will push the site through Frog Find which will strip anything complicated out of it. Not great as it will strip our pictures which the ST/Fal/TT can do (if slowly) but a stubborn site may work.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by czietz »

I can totally relate to your frustration, Thorsten, w.r.t. Lostboysix's comment! The proper way is certainly not recommending an old version but helping to fix whatever issues arise in the current version.

However, in this particular case there is a known bug with the JIT version (and only the JIT version!) of Aranym 1.1.0 under Windows:
https://groups.google.com/g/aranym/c/udw7XgJIAPc
https://github.com/aranym/aranym/issues/44

I know that you have long fixed this bug in the repo. However, users checking out the Aranym website are still pointed to the buggy version 1.1.0. And as far as I know snapshot builds (which would be fixed) are broken since Bintray went down.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by Lostboysix »

Hi Thorsten,

I didn´t want to offend you or promote "obsolete" software. I am a big fan of updating and using the latest versions available.
And I was using the latest version from the official website for years and always the jit-version, as it supposed to be the fastest.
Unfortunately I always ran into problems.

Example: Same config file, same disk image, same program files.
Starting Windows Aranym 1.1.0 JIT: Papyrus X doesn´t start, Anyplayer has big issues with playing MP3s or Videos (MOV).
Aranym 1.1.0 MMU: Everything is perfectly fine (which I only found out days ago)

Oliver also stated at the link I posted:
Windows, run install program nothing more. Note current version 1.1.0 JIT version looks not work as expected, Kronos will crash, you can find binary on sourceforges https://sourceforge.net/projects/aranym ... ym/0.9.16/, take cygwin version, the best to not have confusion binary is to put folder in "Aranym_files" folder and edit "run_window.bat" with texte editor to replace "C:\Program Files (x86)\ARAnyM\aranym-jit.exe" by "..\aranym-0.9.16\aranym-jit.exe"
And Faucon2001, maker of the exellent EasyAraMint distribution, wrote:
There is definitely something wrong with MacAranym, as I don't have these issues on Aranym linux (x86 or Arm)
I confirm the sound issue with Summum with MacAranym, and this is the fix
https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... nt#p427966

I would love to report bugs and help improving the software, if this is possible.

First it would be great, if the fixed version could be make public or more available. Is there anywhere we can post the download links or better replace the links on the official Aranym Website?

@czietz
Thank you very much for confirming the bug and stating that it already has been fixed.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by ThorstenOtto »

czietz wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:43 pm And as far as I know snapshot builds (which would be fixed) are broken since Bintray went down.
Yes, that's true unfortunately. I could of course put the results on my server, as i did with freemint. However in the case of aranym, it's not only a problem of bintray, but also travis. github actions do not offer building on older versions of macOS.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by czietz »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:19 am Yes, that's true unfortunately. I could of course put the results on my server, as i did with freemint. However in the case of aranym, it's not only a problem of bintray, but also travis. github actions do not offer building on older versions of macOS.
Then again, why should the Aranym Windows users be denied a current version (where JIT is fixed); merely because of building restrictions w.r.t. to macOS? Not everyone will want to / know how to build Aranym under Cygwin themselves. So they're stuck with 1.1.0, which leads to bad recommendations ("use 0.9.x") like the ones above.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by Lostboysix »

@czietz
Thank you!

I am a more experienced windows user, but don´t have any development skills at all like the majority of the people. I neither have any plan how to compile a build, nor had I the idea that this was even possible.

People like me can only use what´s available and try to make it work somehow.
And posting workarounds in good faith to help others to get their setups running is not really a bad recommendation, if there is no viable alternative.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by ThorstenOtto »

czietz wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:43 am Then again, why should the Aranym Windows users be denied a current version (where JIT is fixed);
Because the build on appveyor currently fails too (something seem to have changed in the needed prerequisites). And i currently neither have the time nor the motivation to convert all the scripts to github actions.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by czietz »

Another idea: Cherry-pick the fix on top of 1.1.0 and manually build a 1.1.0.1 bugfix release for Windows users.

PS: The Appveyor build complains about automake. Iirc, one has to install that (and autoconf, too?) explicitly with Cygwin, it doesn't come preinstalled with a base Cygwin installation.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by ThorstenOtto »

Lostboysix wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:03 am And posting workarounds in good faith to help others to get their setups running is not really a bad recommendation, if there is no viable alternative.
Maybe you did not meant it like that, but you did not "post a workaround". All you did was to say that the current version is crap. And that really pissed me off. Same happens to FreeMint, where some people (not only me) put a lot of effort in making it better, still everything we hear is that people are still using version 1.18 (already 9 years old) or even older versions. Such things will drop our motivation to nearly zero. If no-one is going to use it (not even taking a few minutes to test it), there is no point in doing any further development.
but don´t have any development skills at all like the majority of the people.
I tried hard to make everything as easy as possible. If you have correctly installed everything, its just a matter of typing "./autogen.sh; make". I think you don't need development skills for that.
nor had I the idea that this was even possible.
That's the case for all open source software.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by Lostboysix »

Maybe you did not meant it like that, but you did not "post a workaround". All you did was to say that the current version is crap. And that really pissed me off. Same happens to FreeMint, where some people (not only me) put a lot of effort in making it better, still everything we hear is that people are still using version 1.18 (already 9 years old) or even older versions. Such things will drop our motivation to nearly zero. If no-one is going to use it (not even taking a few minutes to test it), there is no point in doing any further development.
Hey Thorsten,

I absolutely get your point and didn´t want to demotivate you or others in any way. Sorry if this came off wrong.

As said I tried the latest publicly available version for months/years, but it just doesn´t work correctly. So I pointed out that it is broken and has issues with many programs, which is apparantly true. I am pretty sure, that everyone would switch to your bugfixed version instantly, if you would give them the chance and provide it somewhere.
I tried hard to make everything as easy as possible. If you have correctly installed everything, its just a matter of typing "./configure; make". I think you don't need development skills for that.
Even if you make compiling builds as easy as possible, most users will never touch this, especially windows or mac users, which are the vast majority. It´s learned behaviour. If you want a software, just go to the website and download it.

And if the users are supposed to do their own builds, it would be helpful to at least tell them this on the website.

Something like: "Unfortunately the latest avalaible JIT version for Windows/MAC has problems, which we currently can´t fix due to time issues, but you can compile a bugfixed version yourself by following this simple guide..."

If you send me the infos, I can try it and write a guide, which you can post. But don´t assume that the average user knows everything about this because it´s common knowlegde.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by mikro »

To be fair, compiling on Windows (or, god forbid, Mac) is usually far from easy. So don't feel bad Lostboysix.

The Travis CI ("build server") company made a real d*ck move, they put a promise on their website "it's gonna be free for open source, forever" (or something like that) and after a couple of years they sold their company to someone who couldn't care less about open source. And shortly before that, Bintray (storage provider) did the same. So hundreds if not thousands of projects got stuck because their whole infrastructure was tailored to it.

Microsoft got it right with their Github Actions but converting scripts to their framework is ultra-boring, frustrating, non-rewarding and basically invisible job. FreeMiNT got lucky because Thorsten bite the bullet, but there are more - Aranym amongst them.

And since we have serious shortage of people capable and willing to do this... we're stuck where we are, i.e. "hopefully one day someone will take a look and we will have working builds again". I did something similar in 2016-2017, Thorsten did it with FreeMiNT a year ago but there's still so much left to do.
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Re: freeMint Web Browser , witch one?

Post by PeterS »

Freemint is brilliant and you work and that of all the others is very much appreciated.

I know she people are often reluctant to try snapshots and feel happier with official releases.

In the case of Freemint the snapshots are always very, very stable. I've used official Linux builds that are a lot less stable and have more bugs.

However I think more frequent official releases would make more people try Freemint and, somewhat strangely, convince people of it's stability.
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