WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

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Moulinaie
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WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by Moulinaie »

Hi all,

I am starting to write a page about the V4+.
Dedicated to Amiga emulation, it can run EmuTOS, Freemint and lot of Atari software (thanks to great programmers Olivier Landemarre, Vincent Rivière and others...)


v4.jpg
Here is the link (page both in french and english):

https://gtello.pagesperso-orange.fr/vampire.htm

I show my setting and you can download some specific stuff.

Guillaume.
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by czietz »

Very good work and nice presentation. Thank you! This will surely get more people interested in running EmuTOS on their V4SA. Please just make sure that people can get the source code for all "inofficial" modifications to EmuTOS that you do.

PS: Builtin EmuTOS support for colored desktop icons will most likely come with the next release.
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by Moulinaie »

czietz wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:42 am Very good work and nice presentation. Thank you! This will surely get more people interested in running EmuTOS on their V4SA. Please just make sure that people can get the source code for all "inofficial" modifications to EmuTOS that you do.

PS: Builtin EmuTOS support for colored desktop icons will most likely come with the next release.
In the archives, you'll find the ASM source code for every program I write.

Nice if color icons comes with EMUTOS !

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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by TheNameOfTheGame »

Very nice website and detailed description of the V4+. It's a good device, just wish it supported ST/Falcon games. Since It does Amiga games it should be able to do it.
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by Moulinaie »

TheNameOfTheGame wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:21 am Very nice website and detailed description of the V4+. It's a good device, just wish it supported ST/Falcon games. Since It does Amiga games it should be able to do it.
I think that lot of games write directly in the hardware registers for speed reasons.
Amiga registers are correctly managed, but not the Atari ones.

A firmware modification would be necessary.

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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by ThorstenOtto »

I think a better solution would be to write a resident program that does the job, and provides the XBIOS functions (similar to ZMAGXSND). That way, almost every program could benefit from the sound system, without any changes.

Apart from that, i can only also ask to release the source of the modifications. I can't see any updated fVDI version for example. Also the MAPROM.PRG that you mention on your WebSite was done by me, not OL.
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by Moulinaie »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:19 am I think a better solution would be to write a resident program that does the job, and provides the XBIOS functions (similar to ZMAGXSND). That way, almost every program could benefit from the sound system, without any changes.
Sure, that's the goal.
M_PLAYER was "the test" to understand how it works.
Sources are available.
ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:19 am Apart from that, i can only also ask to release the source of the modifications. I can't see any updated fVDI version for example. Also the MAPROM.PRG that you mention on your WebSite was done by me, not OL.
I have seen the fVDI sources and I don't understand them at all. "C" language, tons of files, makefiles, various folders.... This is far from my way of coding.

Sorry for the MAPROM ! I misunderstood what I heard, I correct that immediately!

Guillaume.
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by ThorstenOtto »

Moulinaie wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:10 pm "C" language, tons of files, makefiles, various folders.... This is far from my way of coding.
Thats' possible :) But that's not the point. Not making the (modified) sources is not only counter-productive (there aren't that many developers left for Atari at all), but also a violation of the GPL. Especially since they are used for a project that is otherwise closed-source, and for which not much information is publicitly available. Not your fault of course.
Sources are available.
Hm seems to be missing from the current archive. But i've seen them before, ~800k of assembler source, which is far from my way of coding :D
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by Moulinaie »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:39 pm Thats' possible :) But that's not the point. Not making the (modified) sources is not only counter-productive (there aren't that many developers left for Atari at all), but also a violation of the GPL. Especially since they are used for a project that is otherwise closed-source, and for which not much information is publicitly available. Not your fault of course.
I am not the author of those modifications. I can't give the sources...
ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:39 pm Hm seems to be missing from the current archive. But i've seen them before, ~800k of assembler source, which is far from my way of coding :D
Even on a real TT, those 800kB assemble in 10 seconds. Why should I split my source?
I am sure that it would be slower to split the source! I just assemble and don't have to link to get some OBJ together.

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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by mikro »

Moulinaie wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:49 pmI am not the author of those modifications. I can't give the sources...
Unfortunately, you are violating the license nevertheless. You are publishing ("distributing") the binaries and you can do so only in case you provide also source code (with Vampire modifications) for fvdi.prg & others.

(and yes, I understand it wasn't you who decided not to publish the source code... but the GPL is very clear on this)
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by Moulinaie »

mikro wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:09 pm
Moulinaie wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:49 pmI am not the author of those modifications. I can't give the sources...
Unfortunately, you are violating the license nevertheless. You are publishing ("distributing") the binaries and you can do so only in case you provide also source code (with Vampire modifications) for fvdi.prg & others.

(and yes, I understand it wasn't you who decided not to publish the source code... but the GPL is very clear on this)
Ok, I understand.
Programs FVDI+Drivers are removed from my site.

Guillaume.
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by Moulinaie »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:39 pm
Hm seems to be missing from the current archive. But i've seen them before, ~800k of assembler source, which is far from my way of coding :D
I added at the bottom of my page how to program the sound on the first 4 channels of the Vampire.
So you don't have to read my whole source code!

Guillaume.
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by Moulinaie »

Hi,

I have added the tool to set time and date of the RTC from the DESKTOP :


v4_setrtc.jpg
It also sets the GEMDOS time!

Source code is available in FORTH + ASM. The program is called V4SETRTC.PRG.

See at "Real time clock" section here:

https://gtello.pagesperso-orange.fr/vampire.htm

Guillaume.
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by penguin »

Moulinaie wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:27 am Here is the link (page both in french and english):

https://gtello.pagesperso-orange.fr/vampire.htm

I show my setting and you can download some specific stuff.
Is the EmuTOS patch Vampire specific? It doesn't do anything with Hatari's Falcon emulation + EmuTOS 1.1.1. Starts, doesn't complain, everything appears as before.
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by mrbombermillzy »

Amazing work there yet again Guillaume! :D

Im going to try this out at some point on my 500v2+. Just going to wait for Gunnar to bring out the planned December v2 core update, to see what gets changed first.
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by stormy »

Moulinaie wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:10 pm
mikro wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:09 pm
Unfortunately, you are violating the license nevertheless. You are publishing ("distributing") the binaries and you can do so only in case you provide also source code (with Vampire modifications) for fvdi.prg & others.

(and yes, I understand it wasn't you who decided not to publish the source code... but the GPL is very clear on this)
Ok, I understand.
Programs FVDI+Drivers are removed from my site.

Guillaume.
Let me get this straight... Guillaume patched fvdi and other drivers to make the Vampire work with high resolution & sound for other users, but then he was asked to remove them and now nobody can benefit from his work? This seems a shame. Was it really worth pointing out source code laws to him, who was going to sue him?
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by OL »

stormy wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:43 pm
Moulinaie wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:10 pm

Ok, I understand.
Programs FVDI+Drivers are removed from my site.

Guillaume.
Let me get this straight... Guillaume patched fvdi and other drivers to make the Vampire work with high resolution & sound for other users, but then he was asked to remove them and now nobody can benefit from his work? This seems a shame. Was it really worth pointing out source code laws to him, who was going to sue him?
More strange this is not Guillaume Patch, this mine and only on driver, fVDI kernel is simply unchanged, this is very strange because when publish several configuration for Aranym nobody request with source code of Mint, fVDI etc... And this is strange because I have published source code of the driver itself, I not use github anymore because don't like it but with compiled driver itself now. This driver can be found with source code here:

http://v4sa-atari.lutece.net/

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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by mfro »

OL wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:42 pm More strange this is not Guillaume Patch, this mine and only on driver, fVDI kernel is simply unchanged, this is very strange because when publish several configuration for Aranym nobody request with source code of Mint, fVDI etc... And this is strange because I have published source code of the driver itself, I not use github anymore because don't like it but with compiled driver itself now. This driver can be found with source code here:

http://v4sa-atari.lutece.net/

Olivier
That's unfortunate. The engine and driver received several improvements and changes since you got them, so you effectively created an fVDI fork.

Not a GPL violation (Guillaume just needs to refer to your sources to publish your binaries), but an unnecessary diversion of scarce development resources.
Sad. :(
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by ThorstenOtto »

stormy wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:43 pm Let me get this straight... Guillaume patched fvdi and other drivers to make the Vampire work with high resolution & sound for other users, but then he was asked to remove them
Actually you have to blame the apollo team for that, who are using other peoples work but then forbid him to publish the modified source code. Thats clearly not in the sense of the GPL or any other open source.
and now nobody can benefit from his work?
And what if he stops working on it for whatever reason? Then you have binaries without sourcecode, and anybody wanting to do any modifications will have to start all over.
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by Cyprian »

Moulinaie wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:27 am I am starting to write a page about the V4+.
Dedicated to Amiga emulation, it can run EmuTOS, Freemint and lot of Atari software (thanks to great programmers Olivier Landemarre, Vincent Rivière and others...)
Great idea Guillaume
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by Cyprian »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:19 am I think a better solution would be to write a resident program that does the job, and provides the XBIOS functions (similar to ZMAGXSND). That way, almost every program could benefit from the sound system, without any changes.
Moulinaie wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:10 pm Sure, that's the goal.
M_PLAYER was "the test" to understand how it works.
Sources are available.
which one is better, more compatible with the Atari? ZMAGXSND, GSXB?

ZMAGXSND (https://github.com/aranym/aranym/tree/m ... tari/sound) vs GSXB (http://assemsoft.atari.org/gsxb/)

There is a nice sound drivers comparison: https://mikrosk.github.io/xbios/
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by OL »

mfro wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:55 pm
OL wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:42 pm More strange this is not Guillaume Patch, this mine and only on driver, fVDI kernel is simply unchanged, this is very strange because when publish several configuration for Aranym nobody request with source code of Mint, fVDI etc... And this is strange because I have published source code of the driver itself, I not use github anymore because don't like it but with compiled driver itself now. This driver can be found with source code here:

http://v4sa-atari.lutece.net/

Olivier
That's unfortunate. The engine and driver received several improvements and changes since you got them, so you effectively created an fVDI fork.

Not a GPL violation (Guillaume just needs to refer to your sources to publish your binaries), but an unnecessary diversion of scarce development resources.
Sad. :(

I not understand this position, I said engine not change so if interface have not changed, it work too with new engine, and the driver is only for V4, note I add 32 bit driver that was not exist before with original asm inside I could not be able to do it and to my point of view new driver development not go at the right direction, compare to original one it add a lot of ASM for I suppose speed, but in fact C code can achieve near same performance as asm if GCC since version 4 was not so bad to do correct code for such simple code on 68K (twice the speed slower on GCC 4 than GCC 2.95.3 for a simple vro_cpyfm that's crazy, root cause is C compiler not C code driver), so I compil it with GCC 3 and speed is good (just a bit rewrite some C code for speed efficiency), as good as with asm one in most case. And finally it is only for V4, I not want propose it for any other platform, I copy my full archive, people do what they want with it.
Notice since freemint go to github, this is not anymore a cooperative work as in the past I'm afraid, for such small project I think subversion was more useful, I suppose git is very good for project as Linux but for us, this is quite big and strange.

One day perhaps I will probably write a new VDI from scratch because VDI is archaic and should work in coordination with AES, and because too complex for me to fix.

Olivier
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by OL »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:28 pm
Actually you have to blame the apollo team for that, who are using other peoples work but then forbid him to publish the modified source code. Thats clearly not in the sense of the GPL or any other open source.
Sorry Otto, that's just not true.

If you have to blame someone for video driver it is me, nobody else, up to now I have not yet update last version of Emutos because my version is not clean at all, because I start to work on sound driver and it not work, probably I do several mistake even if Emutos looks still work, I should remove this changes to not add confusion and finally someone else will do GSXB driver. Notice nobody want my clean change of Emutos for V4 some month ago, now I will not do effort again to update to current revision, this is clear for me it is now a fork to of Emutos and it is only for V4. I'm going to check this in the week to do a bit clean inside and publish source as it is.

Olivier
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by PeterS »

Does the vampire run another OS and emulate an Atari or is emutos running on the bare metal ?
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Re: WEB PAGE: Apollo Vampire V4+ running EmuTOS

Post by BlankVector »

Superb EmuTOS fork!
But as usual, please respect the license (GPLv2). Rule is simple: if someone asks for the source of any GPL binary, the provider must also be able to provide the source. Easiest way to respect this rule is to always provide a source archive along with a binary. That's really easy, just zip the source folder and upload. Even if the source archive is messy, this isn't a problem in regard to the GPL, as long as those sources can be compiled.

I must admit that The EmuTOS development team asks for a very high level of code quality before inclusion to official sources. On the other hand, this mustn't slow down initiatives from other people. So such forks (in respect the GPL) are the way to go. Then at some point, if the new features are really amazing, as what we can see on the original post picture above, I'm sure we will find a way to merge the forked code into official EmuTOS. But this takes time and manpower to do that cleanly.
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