Minimig RTG possible?

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ericgus
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby ericgus » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:50 am

Sorgelig wrote:
ericgus wrote:
djmartins wrote:As you know most people use it for game playing.


And there are many people who actually don't play many games at all on it.. my self most of my time is spent using it for telecom/telnet BBS and other non-game stuff and very little time is actually used to play games..

These tasks are completely independent from specific computer. It can be done more effectively on PC/Mac.
There is no point to use Amiga on anything except the games/demos and some Workbench for retro feeling. For internet use it's definitely not the right computer.

Sure, some people like to try to use even ZX Spectrum for internet browsing.. But it's not about internet use than "can it do it?" There is a clear distinction between "Hey, see! It can open web page!" and actual use of internet services. Ignoring modern computer in favour to ancient for internet is not wise at all.


I never said I used it for internet browsing.. and on that I agree.. I only generally use it for era compatible activities .. (like telnet) .. or using FTP/SMB (which is very handy to actually have networking working for transferring files and such) .. But I agree.. using a web browser .. no not really a good idea.

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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:59 am

ericgus wrote:or using FTP/SMB (which is very handy to actually have networking working for transferring files and such)

This is the only purpose i use internet connection on Minimig. So if talk about file transfer in general, i think it can be done other way through virtual HDD similar to WinUAE.

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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby RockyBoulder » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:17 pm

Hello I am new to MiSTer, great project!

Regarding RTG: I tried the higher resolution modes recommended at the beginning of this thread: Don't seem to work poperly. Picture is heavely flickering and graphics a distorted or in some modes they seem almost working but lines seem to be missing in interlace modes resulting in poorly readable text. Therefore I'll think I'll stick to produtivity resolution (640x400) as long as there is not rtg on MiSTer. The same mode I used in my A1200 days before I had a cybervision gfx card. Productivity Mode works well on MiSTer for me.

Regarding Internet: Someone claimed Amiga is "pre internet". I don't agree with that. Heavily used my Amiga 500 for calling mailboxes/BBS. These mailboxes often were running Fastcall/Prometheus/Anubis or simimlar software and had at least some newsgroups and e-mail exchange with the net.
On my Amiga 1200 I later bought a "Multifacecard" (hight speed serial) to use the internet (FTP, IRC, Browser). Now with MiSTer I installed roadshow
and use it for IRC, ftp and small file exchanges using smbfs on amiga (possible to use DOpus, to copy from samba share). Could not find a guide regarding the setup with roadshow. Is there a MiSTer Minimmig guide section somewhere for posting such guides?

Regarding Filetransfers: I some post from someone using some adf utility. My current way for exchange is building cd iso files with contents I want to copy to amiga side.

Thanx for making MiSTer and bringing me back to amiga related stuff after over 20 years.

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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:07 am

RockyBoulder wrote:Regarding RTG: I tried the higher resolution modes recommended at the beginning of this thread: Don't seem to work poperly. Picture is heavely flickering and graphics a distorted or in some modes they seem almost working but lines seem to be missing in interlace modes resulting in poorly readable text. Therefore I'll think I'll stick to produtivity resolution (640x400) as long as there is not rtg on MiSTer. The same mode I used in my A1200 days before I had a cybervision gfx card. Productivity Mode works well on MiSTer for me.

It depends which output you use. On HDMI almost any (except 1024x1024) high resolution mode works fine. Although AGA is not so good in high resolutions.
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby kolla » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:29 am

Sorgelig wrote:So if talk about file transfer in general, i think it can be done other way through virtual HDD similar to WinUAE.


And if you do that, chances are that this virtual HDD (which essentially maps to a directory on the SD card?) will be a heck lot faster than hard disk images, and then we stop using that :)

I don't know about WinUAE, but FS-UAE uses .uaem files to store amiga filesystem metadata.
For example C:Copy in the Amiga, is C/Copy and C/Copy.uaem on host OS, with C/Copy.uaem containing (for example) "h-p-rwed 2005-08-11 03:31:52.00 created 11.08.2005 03:31:53, last accessed 07.10.2019"
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:38 pm

There is no plan for full featured file system. Most likely it will be virtual FAT. So if you will need to transfer some specific to Amiga files, then it must be some sort of archive.
Anyway, it's just a distant plan for now.

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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby apolkosnik » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:13 pm

Any volunteers to play with FPGAArcade provided RTG parts?

I've opened an issue tracker for it:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Minimig ... /issues/43

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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby JimDrew » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:35 pm

I can change the Amiga side driver as necessary. I have the source for it and did the initial testing for the Replay.

You will need to add Mikej's blitter VHDL.
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby kolla » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:48 am

Yawn :) I rather have 8MB (or more) chipram for more native 1280x720 screens, sound samples and animation frames.
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby JimDrew » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:33 pm

As we found with Replay (where you could have up to 48MB of CHIP memory) is that many applications break when trying to use more than 2MB of CHIP memory.
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:05 pm

48MB of CHIP? May be 8MB?
I've heard UAE has some HW patch to make 8MB of CHIP.

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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby JimDrew » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:37 am

No, 48MB is correct. Replay 1 supports 48MB of CHIP memory. Nothing can take advantage of it, but it's a good way to constrain memory speed for applications that can run too fast. There were a LOT of Amiga programs, especially in the A1000 and early A500 days that would simply do a memory read of either chip RAM, PAULA, or one of the CIA's in order to slow the bus access to create deliberate delays. It's why timing for the hardware is critical and you can't just run it at any arbitrary speed or you will break programs.
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:05 am

68000 mode with 2MB of ChipRAM and 1.5MB of SlowRAM and without FastRAM provides cycle accuracy of A500/A1000.
Usually cycle accuracy critical apps won't require more than standard A500 memory config, so additional 3MB should be enough fuch such apps.
Also according to my tests 68000 mode with FastRAM acts exactly the same as real A500 with memory expansion where FastRAM is 30% faster than ChipRAM. At least SysInfo gets same result as A1000 with FastRAM expansion.
Thus 68000 mode behaves the same as real A500/A1000 with expansion and without. So there is no point for other tweaks regarding the performance.

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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby kolla » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:58 pm

JimDrew wrote:Nothing can take advantage of it

That is not entirely true, I typically use FS-UAE with 8MB of chipram exactly because there are quite a few programs that can make advantage of it, and perhaps most of all - it makes it possible and more easy to use several programs at once with native modes- for example animating in DPaint with brushes pasted in on the fly from PPaint - each of these programs easily run away with all your chipram if there is only 2MB.

Now, you can of course argue that one should not use so called productivity software on a system that is primarily aimed at gaming, but then the hundreds of MB of fast ram also becomes a weird thing to have.
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby JimDrew » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:11 am

Well, I suppose that is true if you are running multiple programs at the same time that need CHIP memory for screens. You just can't use the extra CHIP memory for a single screen (beyond 2MB) or you start having odd copper list issues.

Hundreds of megs of memory is great to have for Mac emulations.
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:33 am

It should be no problem to add more chip ram, but i need more technical data to understand what to do.

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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby JimDrew » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:03 am

CHIP memory resides at the start of memory 0x00000000 and goes to 0x0001FFFFF for 2MB of CHIP memory (for AGA machines). If you want more CHIP memory, just add memory beyond this. You will either need to patch the OS at boot time to extend the CHIP memory during config time, or you can make a simple program that will add the memory in the startup-sequence. That program should not only add the memory to the memlist, it really should re-configure the memlist so that the memory is contiguous instead of just added as a 2nd hunk.

Now... once you have CHIP memory available, ALL hardware that has access to the CHIP memory bus (like PAULA via DMA) needs to have their memory range extended so that the CHIP mem address mask includes the new memory.
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:19 pm

JimDrew wrote:CHIP memory resides at the start of memory 0x00000000 and goes to 0x0001FFFFF for 2MB of CHIP memory (for AGA machines). If you want more CHIP memory, just add memory beyond this. You will either need to patch the OS at boot time to extend the CHIP memory during config time, or you can make a simple program that will add the memory in the startup-sequence. That program should not only add the memory to the memlist, it really should re-configure the memlist so that the memory is contiguous instead of just added as a 2nd hunk.

Now... once you have CHIP memory available, ALL hardware that has access to the CHIP memory bus (like PAULA via DMA) needs to have their memory range extended so that the CHIP mem address mask includes the new memory.

This is generic words. And this is obvious.
I need technical data for chipset to extend the addressing.
Better someone who is familiar with UAE 8MB ChipRAM trick would provide the patch.

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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby JimDrew » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:52 pm

Well, the requirement is "generic". You are going to just have to extend the bus range for everything that uses CHIP memory. ALICE/DENISE/PAULA/GARY/BUSTER/etc. The WinUAE source code is available for download.
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:27 pm

JimDrew wrote:Well, the requirement is "generic". You are going to just have to extend the bus range for everything that uses CHIP memory. ALICE/DENISE/PAULA/GARY/BUSTER/etc. The WinUAE source code is available for download.

sounds like i want this feature more than you.

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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby xolod79 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:45 pm

Here is some information about ChipRAM more than 2 mb.
http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b= ... order=&x=4

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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby JimDrew » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:30 am

Sorgelig wrote:
JimDrew wrote:Well, the requirement is "generic". You are going to just have to extend the bus range for everything that uses CHIP memory. ALICE/DENISE/PAULA/GARY/BUSTER/etc. The WinUAE source code is available for download.

sounds like i want this feature more than you.


I am sure you do... I certainly don't want it because it breaks various software.
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby kolla » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:53 pm

JimDrew wrote:I certainly don't want it because it breaks various software.

Such as? I ask because I never experienced this.
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby JimDrew » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:59 am

DigiPaint, DPaint AGA, Photon Paint, and any other program that relies on the fact that an Amiga screen will never be larger than 2MB in size. This affects scratch pages (screen copies), which can end up overlapping either non-existent or already used memory when not checking boundaries.
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Re: Minimig RTG possible?

Postby apolkosnik » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:38 pm

JimDrew wrote:DigiPaint, DPaint AGA, Photon Paint, and any other program that relies on the fact that an Amiga screen will never be larger than 2MB in size. This affects scratch pages (screen copies), which can end up overlapping either non-existent or already used memory when not checking boundaries.

It would be great to have a configurable option to test things out just for fun.


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