Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

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susher
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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby susher » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:53 pm

fenarinarsa wrote:
susher wrote:Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work on my 4MB STE with UltraSATAN and HDDriver 10.10. It just stops on the intro screen with only a little of the "progress bar" showing.
It does the same from the UltraSATAN on my TT030 but runs until it tries to play the sound/video on the next screen (understandably) if run from the SCSI hard disk.
Maybe an HDDriver+ACSI+UtraSATAN issue?


It won't work on TT030 anyway, I use the blitter, STE full video addressing and I change the SR value during a rte (Timer B), which is not compatible with the 68030 AFAIK. Everything can be changed to be TT-compatible but I don't know if the instruction cache will allow to execute the generated code that is loaded from disk for each frame. Is data changed by DMA taken into account by the 68030 cache?


To be honest I didn't expect it to work on the TT, I was merely seeing if it had the same behaviour on the UltraSATAN and internal SCSI disk, which it didn't.

As for the 68030 cache, this can be turned off but the instruction pipelines could be an issue with self-modifying code I imagine if the instructions are close to those already running.

I don't have HDDriver so I couldn't test it, I only have Ppera's drivers. Since it's regular GEMDOS calls it's a bit of a mystery to me :shrug:
Note that when I use Ppera's drivers on Hatari with an ACSI image, it also hangs during the first load.


It was, and still is, a mystery to me, especially given that as soon as I turned the write-verify on it started working!

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby fenarinarsa » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:50 pm

Exclusive preview of the monochrome version.

Image


Hatari, Steem and Steem SSE: none gives the same result in monochrome, there is major bugs on the three emulators, but different bugs :?
And I don't have a mono-VGA adapter at hand to test on real hardware.

Is that me or are ST emulators not good at emulating monochrome mode?

Steem SSE also had issues in color, it didn't emulate 60Hz correctly.

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby Orion_ » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:12 pm

I made this demo mainly using Steem SSE for debugging, and check on real hardware from time to time to be sure it's the same behavior, I had no problem.
A mono-VGA adaptator is cheap to buy on ebay.

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby fenarinarsa » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:44 pm

Okay guess what, I replaced an IFEQ by an IFNE and now it works.

I was clearing $ffff8260 so the ST was going to lowres but as the emulators are locked into highres per setting, of course I didn't see that immediatly. -_-'

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby fenarinarsa » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:36 pm

Okay, here's the monochrome version.
Please don't repost the link, it's a beta version. I don't have a mono monitor to test it on real hardware.

If you do, please test it and tell me if it's okay, then I will do a proper release :)

https://fenarinarsa.com/badapple/ba_mono.zip

There is also some bugfix and the Timer C is no longer stopped at the start since HDDRIVER seems to need it.

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby BlankVector » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:17 pm

fenarinarsa wrote:Okay, here's the monochrome version.

Very good!

However, I prefer the color version, because that one is not dithered.
Normally, monochrome means hi-res, so sharper borders. But dithering kills that hi-res effect, due to fuzzy borders. IMHO the low-res version looks better. Maybe it would be worth to try a non-dithered monochrome version, to see how it looks.

Also, I noticed something. Near the beginning, we can see the witch on her broom. Behind, there is a starfield. But if you look carefully, you can see that stars flicker, some of them disappear and reappear quickly. This may be because of dithering, or maybe just because of interpolation... Maybe that could be improved.
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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby fenarinarsa » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:32 pm

Yes this is because of the dithering. I did a pure black & white version in lowres, the borders are a bit sharper but not so much and we lose all the shadow/blur effects... That's why I chose to do a dithering. I used Photoshop to do the batch conversion like I did for the color version.
There's another thing, the original video is 512x400 So I had to upsize it to 640x400. I used the "Preserve details (enlargment)" of Photoshop else there was way too much dithering everywhere even on pure vertical/horizontal edges.

So I guess it worked for you... It did for someone on Facebook with HDDRIVER so I'm removing the archive and releasing the mono version for good then :)

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby Estrayk » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:05 pm

I tested the Monochrome version. It works perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDJMiACw-48

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby BlankVector » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:28 pm

fenarinarsa wrote:So I guess it worked for you...

Yes, it worked for me with Hatari, GEMDOS drive emulation and EmuTOS.
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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby tuxie » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:31 am

Is it possible to make it Compatible to use it on TT with IDE Interface instead of ACSI ? Our IDE Interface reaches 5,8Mbyte/s so the speed should be enought
I made a Video from my TT playing a Video in True color using Nova Mach64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaYbBuiYDak

Is it possible to disable the blitter in easy way in your code ?

Btw. you did a very good job, cant stop watching this videos hehe

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby fenarinarsa » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:23 am

I just released the final version. Contains 4 versions: high 50kHz, high 12kHz, low 50kHz, low 12kHz.
The 12kHz versions make really smaller files, if your HDD is a bit slow it may work better.
Also seems to work better with more HDD drivers, thanks to Petari.

https://fenarinarsa.com/badapple/fenari ... _final.zip

Source code (GPLv3)
https://fenarinarsa.com/badapple/fenari ... source.zip

High-res video capture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIeAIgGnx0M


tuxie wrote:Is it possible to make it Compatible to use it on TT with IDE Interface instead of ACSI ? Our IDE Interface reaches 5,8Mbyte/s so the speed should be enought
Is it possible to disable the blitter in easy way in your code ?


I don't use ACSI, I use standard GEMDOS calls, so it should work. That was one of the reasons why I didn't want to go low-level with ACSI.
On TT there is some issues, one of them is the blitter, another one is a modification I do to the 68000's SR register by modifying the stack (check tb_render in the source code).
For the blitter you can either regenerate the BA.DAT file without using blitter optimization (the resulting file will be bigger), or use the "blitter emulation" I included in the source code. It should run fast enough on TT because of the 68030 cache.

I did point out the modifications needed to make it TT/Falcon030 compatible in the source code :)

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby tuxie » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:36 pm

Made it as Video and played it with mplayer hehe
https://youtu.be/KiJIKbvPLeU

Just a test nothing more :)

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby fenarinarsa » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:25 am

TT is definitevely a beast :o

cvid is not the best codec to pack this video, a better choice would be QuickTime's "animation" (which is actually delta packing).
I'm quite sure on TT it would be possible to compress delta-packed frames with a dictionary-based algorithm and make a full res 256 greyshades video. A job for a TT coder I guess ;)

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby calimero » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:47 pm

"Full res. with 256 grey shades" on TT?
This would require some overscan on TT low res to get full resolutio ...
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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby tuxie » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:39 pm

fenarinarsa wrote:TT is definitevely a beast :o

cvid is not the best codec to pack this video, a better choice would be QuickTime's "animation" (which is actually delta packing).
I'm quite sure on TT it would be possible to compress delta-packed frames with a dictionary-based algorithm and make a full res 256 greyshades video. A job for a TT coder I guess ;)


Would it be possible for you todo the compile the assembly application with blitter emulation ? at the moment i have no possiblity to compile it. Devpac and also TurboAsm does not compile (assemble) it

regards Ingo

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby susher » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:22 am

Well, this is amazing but...

Someone's done something similar on the new Sinclair ZX Spectrum Next in 128K mode...

https://youtu.be/hqhG6Vrgs-0

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Re: Bad Apple by Fenarinarsa (Atari STe demo) !!!!!

Postby guythp » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:52 pm

I think this is on more formats than lemmings was! A quick youtube trail displayed a C64 version, one for the coleco (or intelivision - I always get those two confused) and even the VCS!

With obvious Atari bias I still think the STe version looks (and sounds) the best, but they are all quite a technical achievement (with some great chip tune alternatives to the original soundtrack).

Well done Chaps!
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