Going into demo creation in 2017?

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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby joska » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:32 pm

I mostly agree with you, except for this:

junisix wrote:It's more about the end result and learning about the ST that matters rather than how you do it


This is your personal preference, not a general rule. Other people may enjoy how just as much as (or more than) what.
Last edited by joska on Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby junosix » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:10 pm

That's a good point!

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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby sjuktstarkgrogg » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:56 pm

joska wrote:
sjuktstarkgrogg wrote:I hear some mixed opinions whether it's better to do it directly on an Atari Emulator on PC and then test them out on the machine or do the entire coding on the Atari ST.


What's "better"? Only you can say that. Sure, it's "better" (faster, easier) to code everything using vasm or gcc or whatever with Eclipse on top and some emulator for debugging. But is it more fun? You'll have to figure that out yourself. Personally I enjoy doing it the old school way. However, I do cheat: Back in the day when I was playing around with DEGAS, STOS, Devpac etc I only had a single computer with 1Mb RAM and a single floppy. Now I have 12Mb RAM, mass storage and graphics card which speeds up the process considerably. However, if I had more money I could have had the same setup in 1990 so I don't feel bad about it :D


Wow! Do you actually have 12Mb of RAM for your ST? I thought 4Mb was the maximum!? (I just ordered myself a 4Mb upgrade for my STe)
You have a good point actually, I completely see the immense charm of creating everything on that good old hardware and just make it run.. I've been creating chiptunes on old game consoles for a good while and I only compose on real hardware! One of the biggest obstacles for me is time, so I'd really want to be able to get to know demo-coding when I'm stand by at work or when I have a couple of hours to spare during the evenings... I carry my laptop with me everywhere, so it's probably gonna be on that one I start out learning how to code for the ST. Then I could take out my great STe during the weekend and try out my code on it.

Do you work with a SD solution such as Ultrasatan for cross platform demo programming ?
...or how do most of the demo creators out there approach demo programming in 2017 ? - Cause I bet I'm not the only one that don't have the luxury of being able to code on real hardware everyday(?).

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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby joska » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:54 pm

I have two machines with MonSTer cards, one Mega and one STE. Both have 8Mb alt-RAM in addition to the original 4Mb. The STE also have an ET4000 graphics card. In addition to the 8Mb alt-RAM the MonSTer card also has flashable TOS-ROMs and two IDE interfaces. I use IDE->SD adapters in both these machines. With Hatari on Linux I can simply move the SD-card from the Atari to the laptop and use it as a disk in Hatari. Not sure if this is possible with Windows - I remember trying it a few years ago but could not find a way to do it.
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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby LaceySnr » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:35 pm

68 Assembly is pretty easy to pick up (at least in comparison to other assembly languages). I used the DHS demo system to create Trionoids, for demo scene management it's spot on!

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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby Atarieterno » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:27 am

Here you can share experiences with people who are recovering the old creative spirit:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/STatariART/
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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby metalages » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:33 pm

Does someone knows which options to use with vasm to assemble DRI linkable object files that can be linked by Pure C to build an executable ?
=> this means having an equivalent output to use of Devpac 2 with "program type = DRI linkable"

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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby keops » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:28 pm

Go go! :)

And do it whatever way you want as long as you have fun doing it. Real hardware, emulation or PC using cross platform development,the important part is to enjoy it.

GFA basic is probably a good way to get started, it will make the learning curve less steep once you want to get started with assembler.

I code demos and utilities to relax from work, and a large part of the joy comes from doing it just the way I used to do it back then.

I can't agree more Troed :D

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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby mikro » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:06 am

metalages wrote:Does someone knows which options to use with vasm to assemble DRI linkable object files that can be linked by Pure C to build an executable ?
=> this means having an equivalent output to use of Devpac 2 with "program type = DRI linkable"

vasm (vlink) supports Atari DRI but only for executables. You can always contact Frank and ask him for separate object files support, there's non-zero chance he will do it for you.

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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby metalages » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:02 am

Ok that's what I was suspecting cause I have tested lots of different combinations. Thanks for the infos.

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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby Zorro 2 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:35 pm

Always the same dilemma :D
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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby metalages » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:40 am

mikro wrote:
metalages wrote:Does someone knows which options to use with vasm to assemble DRI linkable object files that can be linked by Pure C to build an executable ?
=> this means having an equivalent output to use of Devpac 2 with "program type = DRI linkable"

vasm (vlink) supports Atari DRI but only for executables. You can always contact Frank and ask him for separate object files support, there's non-zero chance he will do it for you.


Ok Franck told me it would be no problem to add support for dri if he had the dri specs which is not the case. Do you know if someone has that or if people who have developed devpac or pure c can be contacted ?

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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby mikro » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:32 am

metalages wrote:Ok Franck told me it would be no problem to add support for dri if he had the dri specs which is not the case. Do you know if someone has that or if people who have developed devpac or pure c can be contacted ?

Best you can do is to compile a few object files with various elements (external references, symbol names etc) and send them to him. It wont be a quick process but we have together debugged many things like that -- where do you think Atari / FreeMiNT support comes from. :)

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Re: Going into demo creation in 2017?

Postby Eero Tamminen » Tue May 01, 2018 9:37 pm

Did any ancient GCC toolchain version support DRI objects? If yes, digging up the old sources would be one option for documentation.


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