NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

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NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby mahen » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:31 am

Just stumbled upon this : https://www.patreon.com/furrtek?ty=h
Amiga user since 1993 ;-)

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Newsdee
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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Newsdee » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:56 am

The donation metric is a bit odd. $1 per update of what?

Edit: ok its in there somewhere. You basically pay some money when he updates github with files but you can cap it per month (and probably other ways).

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby pstriolo » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:02 pm

I will definively prefer a X68000 project. :mrgreen:

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby retrorepair » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:28 pm

pstriolo wrote:I will definively prefer a X68000 project. :mrgreen:

Philippe


I second that!!

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby olin » Tue May 01, 2018 8:05 pm

I don't know whether you follow furrtek's progress in his NeoGeo fpga research, but he seems to be very dedicated to the project. He just recently posted another update with really good results.
https://www.patreon.com/furrtek/posts

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Newsdee » Wed May 02, 2018 12:59 am

Great news, and it's also interesting to see what individual chips were used for. This will help not only FPGA recreation but also MAME and any historical preservation efforts.

This project aside, I wouldn't be surprised if an FPGA Neo Geo pops up in the next 3 years. Analogue might do one since that's what they started from and Kevtris often talked about what PCB architecture would be required (memory banks etc). So, outlook good :)

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Sorgelig » Wed May 02, 2018 3:54 am

Did he tell he will go open source?
Otherwise why everybody are waiting for something? It may end like that SNES guy wanting 400K$ ;)

Kevtris work is also a dead-end. It's bound to a single device. Tomorrow they will stop to produce it, Kevtris will disappear. And all his cores will become simply useless set of bits.

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Sorgelig » Wed May 02, 2018 3:57 am

Instead of supporting closed source project, jut buy a real device. eBay still have many of retro devices. Almost any retro device has modern extensions allowing to use flash cards and even load managers. So, basically you get the same as those FPGA boards with single closed source core.
At least you won't have game compatibility problems ;)

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Newsdee » Wed May 02, 2018 9:54 am

I believe he said he would open source it, yes. Happy to be corrected if wrong.

I agree with you that open source guarantees longevity in the
long run, but there aren't many initiatives to make actual cartridge based systems from open source designs (and not really a point either if one can dump the ROM).

I am glad the closed source options exist because they are high quality and they bring good attention to FPGA tech. Once people see the benefits it might incite more to look into open source alternatives, and hopefully find MiST and MiSTer projects.

Original hardware is not a replacement because it doesn't have HDMI. I do have the necessary upscalers at home, but it's nice to bring the console to a friend's house with a bunch of carts.

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby rittwage » Wed May 02, 2018 6:40 pm

retrorepair wrote:
pstriolo wrote:I will definively prefer a X68000 project. :mrgreen:

Philippe


I second that!!


There is an X68000 core for the MiSTer...

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Locutus73 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:55 am

Sorgelig wrote:Did he tell he will go open source?

https://github.com/neogeodev/NeoGeoFPGA-sim
Anyway furrtek is a member here.
His work is aimed to preservation and documentation, it’s not intended for a finished and working product; but I hope it will the base of a future MiSTer Neo Geo core if it’s technically possible at all (maybe NeoGeo has too many busses with the cart).

Sorgelig wrote:Otherwise why everybody are waiting for something? It may end like that SNES guy wanting 400K$ ;)

Well, I tried to make my point on nesdev about opensourcing his work, but he didn’t respond yet.

Sorgelig wrote:Kevtris work is also a dead-end.

If by “dead-end” you mean that, as any closed source project, it has nothing to do with preservation I’m with you 100%. If you want to give other negative attributes, I’m not with you.

Sorgelig wrote: It's bound to a single device. Tomorrow they will stop to produce it, Kevtris will disappear. And all his cores will become simply useless set of bits.

Kevtris developed and sold his products before the agreement with Analogue and will continue after (if) it will end. He will not die with Analogue and he could resume his old Zimba3K (multisystem) project. He could even decide to open source all when he will not see any future possible way to gain money or when he will be old or lose interest. Kevtris is not Analogue.

Sorgelig wrote:Instead of supporting closed source project, jut buy a real device. eBay still have many of retro devices. Almost any retro device has modern extensions allowing to use flash cards and even load managers. So, basically you get the same as those FPGA boards with single closed source core.
At least you won't have game compatibility problems ;)

Well yes and… no.
Yours is an oversimplification.
There are several pros about a single system commercial product like a Super NT vs real hardware.
  1. It has a better HDMI video output than a real SNES+OSSC
  2. It simpler to use: no recapping, no RGB mod, no hassles.
  3. A jailbreaked Super NT is way cheaper than a real SNES + OSSC + SD2SNES
  4. A Super NT has a sleek design, is good looking and has an high wife acceptance level
Let me be clear: I own a quite good emulation PC (6600K@4.7GHz+GTX1080), I own an OSSC and various retro consoles, I own (and donated to) your wonderful MiSTer system, I own a Super NT and I’m still buying retro hardware (these days I’m pulling the trigger on a Neo Geo MVS). Comparing a product like Super NT to something like MiSTer is useless, it’s like comparing a MacBook Pro to a DIY self-assembled Linux PC: different uses which can coexist (I use both). Luckily, there are many different end user needs and there are many different aims which drive developers; this is well and good. It's not a holy-war between open source and commercial closed source and preservation is a wonderful thing, but it’s not the only metric.
I support and talk often about your project on the ex Analogue unofficial Discord channel (now Classic Gaming); maybe some users joined here after reading some of my posts; but I’m happy there is a commercially motivated and highly skilled dev like Kevtris producing marvellous finished products. Probably his next product will be a Mega Drive FPGA and I will be happy to have the opportunity to try it along with the Genesis core on MiSTer and the various cores on Retroarch. I hope Kevtris will eventually release his Zimba3K. Retrogaming is cool and interesting these days.

Regards.

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:56 am

Locutus73 wrote:If by “dead-end” you mean that, as any closed source project, it has nothing to do with preservation I’m with you 100%.

yes, i mean exactly this.

btw, Analogue Nt has big boost in compatibility because of real cart support. Without cart compatibility is goes down even according statement from Kevtris (i've read somewhere on forums). NES/SNES have so many different carts sometimes with own CPU and Graphics - so compatibility always will be so-so on cart-less systems.

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Locutus73 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:50 am

Sorgelig wrote:
Locutus73 wrote:If by “dead-end” you mean that, as any closed source project, it has nothing to do with preservation I’m with you 100%.

yes, i mean exactly this.

btw, Analogue Nt has big boost in compatibility because of real cart support. Without cart compatibility is goes down even according statement from Kevtris (i've read somewhere on forums). NES/SNES have so many different carts sometimes with own CPU and Graphics - so compatibility always will be so-so on cart-less systems.


Well, cart special chips are an interesting topic and this is a very interesting historical moment in time. Recently RedGuy (https://github.com/RedGuyyyy/sd2snes) implemented GSU/SuperFX on the SD2SNES (FPGA Flashcart) and really recently he dropped the bomb: he is working on SA-1 (a second, extended and more powerful CPU inside some carts)! Obviously Super NT as a product is cart oriented, the jailbreak is an unofficial unsupported bonus (released by the mysterious jailbreak fairy) and it will never support special cart chips even if the FPGA console could be able to support them (I’m not totally sure, I remember reading something about limitations by Kevtris). Obviously we can use (and many do) the SD2SNES on Super NT, but it’s not cheap.
Anyway, an interesting point about special chips is hybrid emulation: I always sustained on the Discord channel the hypothetical benefits of the super cool hybrid approach of MiSTer. We could have in the future an open source FPGA SNES implementation and use an ARM core for runnung a port of current software implementations of special chips, having, as a result, an ubercool hybrid.

Regards.

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Locutus73 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:17 am

Anyway if you (sorgelig) or anyone wants to join Classic Gaming on Discord, you’re all invited.
https://discord.gg/EX57xnF
It’s an interesting place, with many FPGA developers often chatting and discussing about current and future implementations.
If you (sorgelig) decide to join, let me or, better, an admin know so he can tag you as a VIP member.

Some VIP members:
kevtris - Literally kevtris. FPGA Wizard.
SmokeMonster - Super Nt Jailbreak Liason
frederic-mahe - Super Nt Jailbreak Liason
qwertymodo - MSU-1 Chip Game Hacker
RedGuy - GSU (SuperFX) & SA-1 FPGA Dev
LuigiBlood - Satellaview Wizard
ikari_01 - SD2SNES Wizard
tjstogy - Games Series Collection Curator
Great Hierophant - Nerdly Pleasures Blogmaster/Unofficial Super Nt Guide Creator
laxer3a - SNES FPGA Dev
fpganugga - 64drive and UltraHDMI Dev
woozle - GBA HDMI Project

Regards.

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:12 pm

As MiSTer is open source and everything is open unlike most FPGA projects (i mean HW projects), everybody is welcome.
Currently i have no interest to chat about FPGA on discord as it's pretty much useless. I believe most enumerated above people already know about MiSTer. So, anyone can come to github and offer the help. And it will be really useful than chatting and discuss who made a coolest device (but of course closed source).
I don't get income from MiSTer, so i cannot offer benefits to anyone. It's really fun driving project.

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Locutus73 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:26 pm

Sorgelig wrote:As MiSTer is open source and everything is open unlike most FPGA projects (i mean HW projects), everybody is welcome.
Currently i have no interest to chat about FPGA on discord as it's pretty much useless. I believe most enumerated above people already know about MiSTer. So, anyone can come to github and offer the help. And it will be really useful than chatting and discuss who made a coolest device (but of course closed source).
I don't get income from MiSTer, so i cannot offer benefits to anyone. It's really fun driving project.


Mmmmh... ok, fair, but SD2SNES (the most active project nowadays) is open source, at least the HDL code. Its SA-1 code will be interesting, being the chip derived from 65C816. The chat is not about discussing who made the coolest closed source device or who has the longest member; sometimes an idea comes just from some chit-chat, or, at least, it could be interesting knowing that someone developed something new on his github in order to get some code.
Anyway the invite is open to everyone.

Regards.

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:05 pm

Locutus73 wrote:longest member

do you speak Russian? ;)

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Locutus73 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
Locutus73 wrote:longest member

do you speak Russian? ;)

Nope dude, is that an inside joke?
I tried to use a non offensive terminology, retaining the meaning, with memeber I meant d**k :D

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:10 pm

Because in Russian both "member" and "d**k" are the same word distinguished by context :)

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Locutus73 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:11 pm

Ok, that was the point :lol:
Anyway, back in topic, did you take a look to furrtek’s github?
Do you think it can eventually lead to something useful for MiSTer?

Thank you in advance.
Regards.

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Re: NeoGeo FPGA recreation crowdfunding !

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:58 am

the discussion about NeoGeo on MiSTer is here: viewtopic.php?f=117&t=33747


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