Original video clock to SuperVidel

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mikro
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Original video clock to SuperVidel

Postby mikro » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:26 pm

I've been wondering -- has anyone tried to connect the original video clock to the SuperVidel as per the installation manual? Or even better question: has somebody noticed cases where it was really needed? I must say I haven't used SV *that* much and especially not for watching oldschool games/demos (how many of them work on CT60+VGA?) but I'm tempted to do the mod anyway.

And I'd like to have some game/demo/application where I could observe the effect (and the fix). I'm thinking whether Nature's Willie's adventures isn't one of such cases? ;-)

Correction: it's New Beat's game, not Nature's (but hey, Reeking Rubber should by an obvious candidate, too!)

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Re: Original video clock to SuperVidel

Postby fidzen » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:22 pm

I have made the mod as described in the manual, but I don't know if it's good or bad.
It's a very easy mod, so I guess it's recommended to do.
One game that I have played that take advantage of both CT60 and SV, is Robinsons Requiem.
It's superfast compared to standard Falcon.
Atari Falcon, 14Mb RAM, CT60e, Supervidel, Svetlana, 512Mb RAM, 8Gb CF.
Atari Falcon, 14Mb RAM, CT63, 256Mb RAM,4Gb CF.
Firebee Series 2, 16Gb CF, 2Gb SD, MEGA ST Keyboard and Atari Mice.
Atari Stacy 2 with 4Mb RAM and 20Mb HD.
Atari Lynx II with new LCD and VGA output.
Atari 2600 4-switch Woody

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Re: Original video clock to SuperVidel

Postby instream » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:20 pm

I have run some ST games patched for CT60 by Klapauzius. I think he has them all on his website http://www.klapauzius.net. For example Fire and Ice uses HBL palette switching on the main screen and this does not work well on SV unless you have soldered the clock+sync cables from your MB to SV. Without the actual Videl VGA clock the SV clock will drift away from the Videl clock, even though the SV tries to emulate the same frequency, and the result will be that the Fire and Ice palette switching will be performed on the wrong line and it will slowly move vertically on screen.

mikro
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Re: Original video clock to SuperVidel

Postby mikro » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:32 am

Thanks instream, that's exactly what I was looking for. Will do some comparisons. :)

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leech
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Re: Original video clock to SuperVidel

Postby leech » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:23 pm

instream wrote:I have run some ST games patched for CT60 by Klapauzius. I think he has them all on his website http://www.klapauzius.net. For example Fire and Ice uses HBL palette switching on the main screen and this does not work well on SV unless you have soldered the clock+sync cables from your MB to SV. Without the actual Videl VGA clock the SV clock will drift away from the Videl clock, even though the SV tries to emulate the same frequency, and the result will be that the Fire and Ice palette switching will be performed on the wrong line and it will slowly move vertically on screen.

Awesome, I've done this mod and had no idea if it was done correctly, so I'll have to give this a go.
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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alienkidmj12
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Re: Original video clock to SuperVidel

Postby alienkidmj12 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:46 pm

hi there, is this what you talk of ?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=34319

thanks

dave


instream wrote:I have run some ST games patched for CT60 by Klapauzius. I think he has them all on his website http://www.klapauzius.net. For example Fire and Ice uses HBL palette switching on the main screen and this does not work well on SV unless you have soldered the clock+sync cables from your MB to SV. Without the actual Videl VGA clock the SV clock will drift away from the Videl clock, even though the SV tries to emulate the same frequency, and the result will be that the Fire and Ice palette switching will be performed on the wrong line and it will slowly move vertically on screen.

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leech
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Re: Original video clock to SuperVidel

Postby leech » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:21 pm

alienkidmj12 wrote:hi there, is this what you talk of ?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=34319

thanks

dave


instream wrote:I have run some ST games patched for CT60 by Klapauzius. I think he has them all on his website http://www.klapauzius.net. For example Fire and Ice uses HBL palette switching on the main screen and this does not work well on SV unless you have soldered the clock+sync cables from your MB to SV. Without the actual Videl VGA clock the SV clock will drift away from the Videl clock, even though the SV tries to emulate the same frequency, and the result will be that the Fire and Ice palette switching will be performed on the wrong line and it will slowly move vertically on screen.


No, different mod, it connects directly to the SuperVidel. I think the mod you show is possibly a clock/signal boost? I am sure someone more knowledgeable than I will say I am way off.

There are seriously some weird mods out there for Atari machines. I think I still need to apply the clock patch I ordered from Chris to my machine.
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: Original video clock to SuperVidel

Postby instream » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:14 pm

alienkidmj12 wrote:hi there, is this what you talk of ?

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=34319

thanks

dave


instream wrote:I have run some ST games patched for CT60 by Klapauzius. I think he has them all on his website http://www.klapauzius.net. For example Fire and Ice uses HBL palette switching on the main screen and this does not work well on SV unless you have soldered the clock+sync cables from your MB to SV. Without the actual Videl VGA clock the SV clock will drift away from the Videl clock, even though the SV tries to emulate the same frequency, and the result will be that the Fire and Ice palette switching will be performed on the wrong line and it will slowly move vertically on screen.


No, the clock mod I referred to is the one mentioned in the SV installation manual... :lol:

mikro
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Re: Original video clock to SuperVidel

Postby mikro » Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:51 pm

Let's have some fun. I was finally in mood to explore this upgrade further so here are my results. Most importantly: it does help!

Fire & Ice before the mod (left = videl output, right = supervidel output):
without_mod.png

Fire & Ice after the mod:
with_mod.png

The mod itself isn't very complex, the SV manual doesn't show its full installation so here you are:
mod.jpg

Now the bad news. ;)

Interestingly, some things haven't been fixed and some things are even worse. For example, I was hoping to get smooth scrolling in Atari800 emulator:
IMG_20200105_164610.jpg

What you see here is VGA/50 Hz running a scroller in one VBL. On the left side, I could observe fine 50 Hz scrolling (as this is the vertical refresh rate also for the 8-bit Atari), on the right side, the scrolling is jerky and irregular. It was like that before the mod, too. I have no explanation for it at all.

And now the really bad part. When SV is sourced with Videl clock, sometimes it breaks. For instance, this is how Atari800 looks before the mod:
no_jittering.png

Nothing fancy to see there except that it is 334x240@256c. But this is how it looks after the mod:
jittering.png

If you look closely:
detail.png

you see the SV graphics output is broken - those pixels you see are basically jittering, like having a bad RGB cable and/or a lot of noise around it. This may apply to resolution but also to some specific Videl setting - if I run Atari800 from the desktop in 320x240@256c (i.e. not setting my own resolution), it works properly.

All the tests have been done without any driver active, just pure mirroring.

Also, one interesting observation (not related to the mod): as mentioned in viewtopic.php?f=97&t=31668&p=318367#p318367, I have been using my SV without the jumper. I was like OK, let's give it a try again, also to test whether the jittering will be still present with the jumper. Surprisingly I didn't see any crashes anymore. However - if I increased CT60 frequency to > 66.6 MHz (tried 76.6 and 86.6), SV output would basically stop after a few seconds! Just frozen screen from the moment it had stopped. So not really something useful, it didn't solve any of the issues, just noticed it and wanted it to share with you in case it happens to you as well.

Perhaps I'll keep the mod for the time being (I don't use SV output that much to my shame) but I would love to see this fixed for sure. ;-) I can provide all the software to replicate the problem.
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Last edited by mikro on Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mikro
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Re: Original video clock to SuperVidel

Postby mikro » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:04 pm

Also, take a look at the bottom of the screen:
IMG_20200105_164719.png

This is not a software / rendering error (it's not present on Videl output), this has started after the mod (before the mod the SV output was identical to Videl). It nearly looks like SV is calculating the size of frame buffer incorrectly or something like that.

Btw, I tried running Atari800 also in the chunky 334x240@256c mode, same results (jittering in my custom videl resolution + jerky scrolling).
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Re: Original video clock to SuperVidel

Postby leech » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:25 pm

Interesting. I should play around with mine. Been meaning to try out the updated Atari800 as well!
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)


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