joska wrote:This is a silly discussion. The fact that MiNT does not replace everything in TOS does not mean it's not a "proper" OS. Does that mean that TOS+NVDI is not a "proper" OS? EmuTOS+MiNT? EmuTOS was written specifically to boot MiNT without TOS. What about those odd operating systems "Windows" and "Linux"? Neither of these satisfies Thorsten's or AtariZoll's definitions of a "real" OS since neither is able to bootstrap a computer...
Neither is MagiC either, as soon as a CPU > 68030 is involved. MagiC can *not* boot from ROM in a computer with a 040/060 (or 080 for that matter) unless some hacker sits down and patches MagiC itself. It's not sufficient to path TOS to boot MagiC, you must patch MagiC itself too. This is the sort of things that FreeMiNT tries to avoid. Just like Windows and Linux is able to boot on a huge variety of hardware thanks to 3rd party BIOS and hardware drivers. ..
Indeed silly, when you don't listen what people really talking about. I did not say "not proper' . I said that is not full OS, and more important, that is not OS made at once, but as some kind of extension on some earlier made OS. Just like old WIndows for DOS.
Example with booting is really very bad. Boot from some drive is trivial process. You forgetting how computer works, and that in case of PC we have lot of diverse HW, chipset solutions, unlike in Atari (or Amiga) computers. And that Linux, Windows are not placed in ROM - that self is enough reason for such OS, so OS on disk can not boot self It is possible only with ROM. And that ROM does first necessary HW initializations, otherwise proper boot is not possible. And of course, in my 'definition' - what never happened - I talked only what I consider as not really good naming of something. So, I did not say that full OS must boot self. Remember first TOS 1.00 on floppy ? - that's same as Linux, Windows considering boot.
And of course talking that MagiC, SW done more than 20 years ago in last version is not capable to boot on computer with 68040 ++ is pure ... imagine here some nice English word Come on ... We need to patch not only OS-es for new CPUs but big part of existing SW too . That is old issue, and really has nothing with this "what to call OS" discussion. Although, fits in this thread, indeed