eBay deal gone bad

[mpattonm]

I have been looking for MegaST keyboard for quite a long time. You all know they are becoming rare as hens teeth so I was quite lucky to find one on german eBay eventually. I was rather hoping in UK layout, but you know, they are rare. Afterall, this offer included mice and original cable too.
Finally, I got it for 45 EUR plus 25 EUR P&P (oh well) because seller insisted on shipping via DHL. On and on I have a good experience with DHL, so I said yes, naturally.
The package finally came in on Friday and you you can imagine how speechless I was when I saw... this.

FYI, seller has 295 score with 100% positive feedback. I still do not undertsand how this could even happen.

[Maartau]

mpattonm,

Can you do something with it at least ? Trying to fix it ?

I'm not an HW expert and that's the first time I see a keyboard in a state like this and I understand what you must feel

[mpattonm]

At least I will try, sure. Its just very flustrating to realize there are people who dare to ship in a packaging like this.

[keops]

Leave a negative feedback if you did not already do it

[frank.lukas]

The package was very badly packaged, therefore DHL is not liable for it. The seller has to refund you the money ...

[Stefan jL]

It looks like it was packaged good enough by the pictures... DHL have probably run over it with a truck.

[paul92706]

Looks like it was under a heavy load!

[frank.lukas]

... imagination your pachage was under all other packages on a package car. I think it was possible there are 200 - 300kg on Top so a little bit newsletter paper is not enough ...

dhl.jpg

Shi... happens !


Atari and other original packages have not without a reason styrofoam Inserts ...

[joska]

It looks like it was packaged good enough by the pictures... DHL have probably run over it with a truck.

This statements is a good example on why stuff gets damaged A cardboard box and some old newspapers is not nearly "good enough" - unless you're shipping old newspapers. When shipping something fragile like retro computers there is only two real options - original box (with inserts!) or a crate. I've learned this the hard way.

[Stefan jL]

I know it is not perfect but should be good enough, this really looks like it is mostly DHL's fault. judging by the picture it looks like the opening when closed is 4 layers of cardboard (i dont know how the bottom is though) 6 layer if you count the two short sides. i would blame DHL.

[mpattonm]

The outer box was made from several separate pieces of (single wall) corrugated paper, stiched together by office tape. Literaly there was no corrugated paper in the corners, just a tape. Moreover the corrugated it was made from was obviously used before. It was thin, compressed, wet on touch, its walls were compressed. There was no chance that anything in a "box" like this could survive. He could put it in plain paper envelope as well, it would do about the same job. Few sheets of newspapers used as insert was a bloody joke. If DHL is to blame for something, it is for accepting this kind of package into transport.

[farvardin]

news paper are ok for preventing the computer to move all around in the box, but they should have been crumpled to add some resistance. And with some bubble wrap around the computer, it would have protect it again small shocks. In here, DHL obviously made a pressure which was too much for the box. It looks like it's 50% fault sender, 50% fault DHL.

[Stefan jL]

BTW Mega ST keyboards are a bit heavy arent they? If so then the seller should have added bubble wrap... at least three layers.

[Rustynutt]

Had a MSTE demolished by UPS Ground in the U.S.
Triple bubble wrap, double heavy duty boxed.
In this case, looked like someone ran a fork lift through the box.
Wasted an excellent computer.

However, the lesson learned, no matter how bad you want to look, is to refuse the package.
The buyer in my case opened it up, discards all but the internal packing, and toyed with it, even though the case was obviously crushed.
After getting a request for refund from the buyer, I asked for them to file a report with UPS, which is the BUYERS responsibility. When repacking, UPS received only a thin flimsy box with the contents inside.
Of course, they refused my damage claim. Even if you take photos your packing, shippers only make judgement on what they get back.

I took it in the pants, reamed the buyer, only satisfaction for my part.
It did resell to another astute ( ) user here, as the MB had survived.

The package in this thread should of been refused. ALWAYS require direct signature to verify condition, and actual delivery in hand.
It not only assures you don't end up incurring return postage, it pretty much guarantees no hassle refund via eBay.

I've received a lot of packages in this condition, and accepted them. 90% of the time, contents is ok (unless you see a burns out projectile hole). That's knowing the contents.

Very poorly packed, should have been refused, if that an option. DHL is pretty darn good about this. UK, EMS post, you are pretty much hosed as both go through the USPS, reliable, rarely pay up. Never had a problem with UK or China post. Have had some packages through DM I gasped at upon delivery.

[joska]

I know it is not perfect but should be good enough,

Definitely not. This "packaging" could not withstand normal handling. Why do you think you never see a new computer being shipped in a sloppy cardboard box stuffed with old newspapers?

If this had happened to me I would have asked for a full refund from the seller.

[mikro]

When shipping something fragile like retro computers there is only two real options - original box (with inserts!) or a crate.

I might have been lucky but with good packaging (bubble wraps, several layers, big and heavy duty box) and marking it as fragile (yeah, I know, they are free to ignore it) I have never ever had a problem. This includes stuff like:

- fragile CT2 powered Falcon motherboard (yeah, with the CT2 installed!), survived three months on a ship
- Atari Sparrow sent from the UK
- two Sparrow PCBs sent from the US

... that being said, I'm shipping my Aussie Falcon, STE, SC1435 and SC1224 in crates. ;)

Anyway, use the eBay evil policy against sellers and ask for full refund, you will get it.

[FedePede04]

before calling the " eBay evil" he could try contact the seller...
that normal work just fine

[wongck]

The used box can only keep the stuff together and need some structure like Styrofoam packing for strength and protection.
The newspaper needs to be crumpled and not in sheets.

In this case, I do not see the fragile sticker and DHL does not know there is no Styrofoam packing inside.
So the responsibility should be more on the packer side.

My experience in shipping was my TT from Germany by DHL. It's the original TT box so it is old and not strong any more, the Styrofoam packing was still there but it was also old and getting brittle. The post office lady was rolling it like a cart-wheel even when there are fragile sticker on it, I shouted at her and told her to stop. Luckily it was still working but the memory board was loose.

[wongck]

... that being said, I'm shipping my Aussie Falcon, STE, SC1435 and SC1224 in crates.

Wow... monitors... better use some reputable forwarders, but they may be expensive.

[farvardin]

However, the lesson learned, no matter how bad you want to look, is to refuse the package.

that's pretty relevant. So now we have a responsibility of more like 40% sender, 40% DHL and 20 % receiver. But I understand how temping it could be to open the package instead of refusing it.

[mpattonm]

However, the lesson learned, no matter how bad you want to look, is to refuse the package.

that's pretty relevant. So now we have a responsibility of more like 40% sender, 40% DHL and 20 % receiver. But I understand how temping it could be to open the package instead of refusing it.

Glad you have got it concluded
Anyway, the message behind my post was "don't expect that guy you are dealing with has good/common sense in regards to what packaging is required, when shipping out your valuable stuff". Anyway, I am in contact with sender now, trying to sort things out.

[soviet9922]

Even good packaging don't save you from the hardships of the mail system
Like this i ship this computer to a guy in the US, it was in its original box including original inserts and the original box was inside another sturdy box + padding. And he got this:

temporary image upload

[FedePede04]

Even good packaging don't save you from the hardships of the mail system
Like this i ship this computer to a guy in the US, it was in its original box including original inserts and the original box was inside another sturdy box + padding. And he got this:

temporary image upload

:'(

[EmpireAndrew]

Any item in its original packaging can be damaged by some serious event.
However that packaging was not even close to reasonable.
The box was made out of soft cardboard so wouldn't resist anything (should be proper stiff thick cardboard) and a few bits of scrunched up newspaper is not packaging material either.
Items should be packed in several layers of bubble wrap, and then have proper padding to stop them from moving around inside the box.
That box should be stiff cardboard, and if the item is valuable or sensitive like say a computer or CRT monitor, that box should go inside another thick crush resistant card box box with padding all around it.

As for any damage being the buyers responsibility. NO WAY.
The buyer paid the seller who did the packaging and has the contract with the shipping company (FedEX, USPS, Royal Mail, who ever).

It is the sellers responsibility to claim from the shipping company and refund the buyer.
The buyer must simply do their part in terms of not signing or indicating damage upon delivery, photographing the box and items sneding all that to the seller and then keeping the evidence until it is resolved.

Any ebay seller who tried to palm the claim off on me the buyer would get serious negative feedback.

I've had a couple of items damaged through insufficient packaging, an Amiga 500 came with the top case shattered into bits, and I've received squished software boxes. However only the Amiga seller tried to get me to deal with the claim and was determined the packaging was sufficient, which it was not. He got dealt with.

[Rustynutt]

True, the seller is to process the damage claim, but here, the recipient should start the process by either refusing the package, or filing the claim if not present when a damaged package arrives. That's how UPS, FEDEX is set up in the States. It's as simple as phone call, then the recipient's "participation" in the system done. It's not that they are at fault at all.
This is just a system process, such as obtaining an RMA from a retailer.
Of course, one doesn't have to work within a system that see's millions of packages moved daily around the world.
No expert, but think the reason for why it's handled this way is how the purchased insurance works.
The shipper is responsible for intake of packages. If the seller listed the value as NIL (as many buyers want to avoid VAT, something rarely enforced in the States), for all they care or could be paper towels in the box. If seller listed value as 200€, the shipper counter should have immediately looked at the packing and said no way Jose. FEDEX here, if doing their job, requires visual inspection of contents at the counter when claiming ~$500 value. They wouldn't insure a packed like the one I this thread.
This is going to be easily resolved via eBay, with the down side of the buyer still looking for another keyboard to come up for sale (: