Weird idea for a possibly cool project. (IDE adapter with embedded wifi/NFS)

[leech]

So I was thinking about that serial / wireless device that was discussed a while back for adding Wifi to anything with a serial port. With the anoyance I am having with trying to get my NFS share working, I was pondering if this would be possible. Basically what I am thinking is a device that is powered by the IDE cable but has an embedded OS in it with a wireless chip that you can configure a simple nfs mount and it would act as a hard drive. Wireless technology itself is faster than the drive throughput in older computers.

I do see one terrible side affect of this could be that the wifi dies in the middle of a write operation, but I don't think that will corrupt the mounted file system anyhow. Transferring files to our Atari's at that point would be as easy as copying a file over to the exported dir.

This would also make it dead simple to make backups of your system, or have it on a RAID array.

[Anima]

Something like the NetPi-IDE?

[AtariZoll]

I think that it could be combined into CosmosEx.
Using ACSI port with DMA is better than IDE considering less slowdowns when data transfer is active + you don't need to open machine that it works.
There was cartridge port adapter for LAN too - so could do WiFi variant of it.

[Cyprian]

I think that it could be combined into CosmosEx.

actually this exactly what CosmosEx does - uses WiFI and ACSI DMA for RAW,GEM, SMB file systems

Something like the NetPi-IDE?

that looks cool

[leech]

Yeah, I was thinking the CosmosEX should be able to do something like that, just wasn't sure if it could.

But doesn't it allow SMB filesystems, vs it acting like a hard drive transparently to the system, but the data is mounted from elsewhere? Though yes the CosmosEx is a bit better in that it supports ACSI/SCSI (depending on version) vs IDE. I was thinking IDE only because more systems seem to use it (outside of the STs with modification, which by default only the Falcon supports it).

I'm kind of looking for something to replace my SSD IDE drive that I have. Due to the SuperVidel, I had to remove the hard drive holder, so now it's just flopping around in there again.

[Cyprian]

Yeah, I was thinking the CosmosEX should be able to do something like that, just wasn't sure if it could.

But doesn't it allow SMB filesystems, vs it acting like a hard drive transparently to the system, but the data is mounted from elsewhere?

yes, it does
It's one of the main CosmosEx feature. You can boot ST from shared folder (NFS / Samba / CIFS / SMB) from your laptop: http://joo.kie.sk/cosmosex/download/Cos ... _Guide.pdf

[leech]

Well crap! Guess I'm opening up my old bird and replacing things soon (if not tonight). Been meaning to do it, just didn't want the SCSI cable hanging out the back, but I have other things dangling out now due to the CT60e anyhow (really need to clean that up).

Anyone know if more are being made? I should probably get a second (for the TT).

[wongck]

Using IDE on an ST would be difficult. ASCI would be better, so it is the CosmosEX.

[joska]

Using ACSI port with DMA is better than IDE considering less slowdowns when data transfer is active + you don't need to open machine that it works.

True if you have an ST, but if you have a Falcon - like leech does - ACSI is not an option. SCSI would be an option, but in real life IDE is better on the Falcon. Faster transfers (especially on accelerated machines) and much better reliability.

[AtariZoll]

True if you have an ST, but if you have a Falcon - like leech does - ACSI is not an option. SCSI would be an option, but in real life IDE is better on the Falcon. Faster transfers (especially on accelerated machines) and much better reliability.

Thank you very much. I never knew that Falcon has no ACSI port. Never new that IDE is better than SCSI on Falcon ... Does that Falcon have keyboard ?

[joska]

I suspect sarcasm here But yes, IDE gives better performance than SCSI on Falcons, especially on accelerated Falcons.

[leech]

Well, to be fair, I have just about every ST (though oddly not an original one, at least that is fully working, my 1040STf has something off with it's video, but since I have a 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030 and Falcon, haven't really minded too much...)

Main reason I was asking about IDE is also for other retro systems, which seem to somehow or another support at least IDE.

[Cyprian]

Thank you very much. I never knew that Falcon has no ACSI port. Never new that IDE is better than SCSI on Falcon ... Does that Falcon have keyboard ?

actually Falcon's SCSI is better 1) but IDE is faster 2).
1) better because it has DMA channel - therefore read/write operations can be done in the bacground, without CPU activity;
2) faster due to SCSI DMA is limited to max 1.8 ~ 2 MB/s and IDE is limited only by CPU/BUS speed

[leech]

So with like a CT60e, it'll run a lot faster? I was amazed at the speed FTP was actually working in 060 mode, vs wget which is just slow as sin. I don't know the TCP/IP stack that much, but is FTP really that much lighter weight than HTTP?

[AtariZoll]

actually Falcon's SCSI is better 1) but IDE is faster 2).
1) better because it has DMA channel - therefore read/write operations can be done in the bacground, without CPU activity;
2) faster due to SCSI DMA is limited to max 1.8 ~ 2 MB/s and IDE is limited only by CPU/BUS speed

Yes, DMA is nice thing. But in real usage, in single task TOS there is no background disk access - SW will wait until disk transfer is finished. So really no use of "without CPU activity" .
SCSI implementation in Falcon is pretty much limited. Not only in speed.

[joska]

So with like a CT60e, it'll run a lot faster?

The CT60 itself does not make IDE a "lot" faster, just a little. The Falcon-bus is still a bottleneck. But when you accelerate the Falcon itself to 20 or 25MHz you will notice a substantial increase in IDE speed.

I was amazed at the speed FTP was actually working in 060 mode, vs wget which is just slow as sin. I don't know the TCP/IP stack that much, but is FTP really that much lighter weight than HTTP?

Not really. Litchi is just a lot more efficient than wget. I get around 500kb/s with Litchi on my CT60e with a Hydra ethernet cartridge. My Milan060 with a PCI ethernetcard is not much faster.

[leech]

I think my NetUSBee topped out at 100 with wget, Litchi just seemed to fly through. Though that could have been due to copying off my NAS in the next room.

[Cyprian]

actually Falcon's SCSI is better 1) but IDE is faster 2).
1) better because it has DMA channel - therefore read/write operations can be done in the bacground, without CPU activity;
2) faster due to SCSI DMA is limited to max 1.8 ~ 2 MB/s and IDE is limited only by CPU/BUS speed

Yes, DMA is nice thing. But in real usage, in single task TOS there is no background disk access - SW will wait until disk transfer is finished. So really no use of "without CPU activity" .
SCSI implementation in Falcon is pretty much limited. Not only in speed.

well, the real case under single TOS is that D2D audio applications didn't support IDE port because of lack of DMA.

I usually used MagiC and Geneva and singleTOS only for games and audio D2D

[AtariZoll]

well, the real case under single TOS is that D2D audio applications didn't support IDE port because of lack of DMA.
I usually used MagiC and Geneva and singleTOS only for games and audio D2D

D2D - probably means 'direct to disk' - it has certainly own low level disk driver - then can be in background.
But actually, I think that it could be done with IDE too if audio code is not extremely sensitive for short interrupts. But is certainly harder for coding.

[leech]

Ah, yes I remember reading with either the Amgia or Atari that Direct to Disk was mostly only achievable via SCSI. In fact almost every Video Toaster system out there had some serious amounts of SCSI thrown at it.

[Cyprian]

yep, it could be done with IDE but we have to reckon with a loss 30~50% of CPU for disk management

[wongck]

Now sure what's the impact but
1/ SCSI has a dedicated chip
2/ IDE is using PIO

However, as mentioned already the bandwidth that these method can achieve counts.

[iggydrougge]

There already are SD cards with such functionality for photographers who need to upload their photos immediately. They're even cheap.

[leech]

An SD card with networking? Wow, they actually do exist. I may have to try one of these out somewhere.

[wongck]

Yes, SD with WIFI capability, been around for 3-4 years or more.