What's this Falcon board?

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catmando
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What's this Falcon board?

Postby catmando » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:00 pm

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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby jvas » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:14 pm

It is printed on the board: Falcon Magnum Fast Ram

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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby catmando » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:16 pm

jvas wrote:It is printed on the board: Falcon Magnum Fast Ram


Haven't seen a memory module plugged in that side of the board before, memory expansion is usually plugged in near the fan not near the jag and cartridge ports
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby leech » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:46 pm

So basically the equivalent of TT RAM instead of ST RAM, right? ST RAM definitely goes over where the fan is/was (I disconnected that horrible sounding thing on recommendations from this forum!)
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby calimero » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:49 pm

leech wrote:So basically the equivalent of TT RAM instead of ST RAM, right? ST RAM definitely goes over where the fan is/was (I disconnected that horrible sounding thing on recommendations from this forum!)

I do not think so.

That BUS is only 16 bit width so this is no real 32bit TT RAM.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby frank.lukas » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:58 pm

Is call Alternate Ram, so it is a kind of ST Ram like the Alternate Ram 8MB with the MonSTer ...
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby leech » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:04 pm

Ah yes, that is right, alternate ram. Still weird to me that Atari went that route with the Falcon. Guess their intentions were a 1040STe replacement, with an eventual Falcon040 more in line with a TT030 replacement.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby Cyprian » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:27 pm

calimero wrote:That BUS is only 16 bit width so this is no real 32bit TT RAM.

This is "TT-RAM" or Fast-RAM, but with 16 bit bus. Access to it is much faster than to ST-RAM because VIDEL doesn't slows the CPU down.

frank.lukas wrote:Is call Alternate Ram, so it is a kind of ST Ram like the Alternate Ram 8MB with the MonSTer ...

The term of "Alternate RAM"/ALT-RAM applies exclusively Atari ST/STe. And it is a block of memory located between 4MB and 14MB RAM
If I remember correctly, this card places additional memory above 16MB (exactly as TT-RAM in the TT)
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby joska » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:09 pm

Cyprian wrote:The term of "Alternate RAM"/ALT-RAM applies exclusively Atari ST/STe. And it is a block of memory located between 4MB and 14MB RAM
If I remember correctly, this card places additional memory above 16MB (exactly as TT-RAM in the TT)


The Magnum's RAM is between 4 and 16MB. So I'd say "alt-RAM" would be correct here.

A Falcon without a replacement CPU (Mighty Sonic, Afterburner, CT2, CT6x) only has 24bit address bus. So it can't access anything above 16MB.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby acsi » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:20 pm

I found this https://archive.org/details/Magnum_Falcon_RAM_expansion_for_the_Atari_Falcon030_German_undated

Unfortunately my German is non existent so not sure if its for that board? :shrug:

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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby calimero » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:11 pm

joska wrote:A Falcon without a replacement CPU (Mighty Sonic, Afterburner, CT2, CT6x) only has 24bit address bus. So it can't access anything above 16MB.


So this RAM is not available if you already have 14MB of ST-RAM in Falcon?
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby frank.lukas » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:20 pm

The Magnum Falcon can only work in a 4MB Atari Falcon ...
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby mikro » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:31 pm

joska wrote:The Magnum's RAM is between 4 and 16MB. So I'd say "alt-RAM" would be correct here.

Minor correction: 4 or 8 MB. So in overall, you'll get 8 or 12 MB RAM, with 4 MB as base ST RAM.

Strangely, to this day I've always assumed the Magnum card for Falcon was true 32-bit TT RAM card and boom, it's not.

Would be interesting to measure the impact it has on software -- Videl & friends wont access it but yeah, still 16-bit.

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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby calimero » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:31 am

@mikro someone, I suspect Cyprian, already measure speed of this "TT", "alt" RAM in Falcon - ASIR (as I remember): it was 10% faster (not sure in what tests) than ordinary ST RAM in Falcon. (try google search this forum)
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby catmando » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:37 pm

So after reading all the comments, am I correct in saying that this Ram module only functions when you have 4mb, 8mb or 12mb of normal RAM fitted in the usual slot?
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby joska » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:04 pm

It can only be used with 1Mb or 4Mb in the normal RAM slot. It offers 4Mb or 8Mb of "alt-RAM".
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby catmando » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:07 pm

Have added page to the wiki http://www.atari-wiki.com/index.php/Magnum_Fast_Ram, feel free to edit and add your knowledge.
Atari Falcon Tos 4.04 | 14mb | IDE CF 2GB
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby catmando » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:07 pm

joska wrote:It can only be used with 1Mb or 4Mb in the normal RAM slot. It offers 4Mb or 8Mb of "alt-RAM".


What happens if you have 14mb in the normal ram slot?
Atari Falcon Tos 4.04 | 14mb | IDE CF 2GB
Atari STE Tos 1.62 | 4mb | HxC Slim SD 8GB
Atari STE Tos 1.62/2.06 | 4mb | Floppy A-B Mod | IDE SD 4GB
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby joska » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:09 pm

Then it will not work :) The "ST-RAM" (normal RAM in Falcon) occupies the same address range as the "alt-RAM" offered by the Magnum.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby catmando » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:13 pm

joska wrote:Then it will not work :) The "ST-RAM" (normal RAM in Falcon) occupies the same address range as the "alt-RAM" offered by the Magnum.


Great thanks for sharing.
Atari Falcon Tos 4.04 | 14mb | IDE CF 2GB
Atari STE Tos 1.62 | 4mb | HxC Slim SD 8GB
Atari STE Tos 1.62/2.06 | 4mb | Floppy A-B Mod | IDE SD 4GB
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby calimero » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:16 am

I wonder if eg demos that require 14MB will work with this alr ram...?
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby AtariZoll » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:53 am

calimero wrote:@mikro someone, I suspect Cyprian, already measure speed of this "TT", "alt" RAM in Falcon - ASIR (as I remember): it was 10% faster (not sure in what tests) than ordinary ST RAM in Falcon. (try google search this forum)

How much faster is depends from current video mode. In True color mode it can be 30% faster, I guess.
But in case of Alt/Fast RAM you can not use it as screen buffer, so some SW may not work with it.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby frank.lukas » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:50 am

With a Atari ST the Alternate Ram has with a Magnum ST or a MonSTer the same Speed as ST Ram ...
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby AtariZoll » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:13 am

frank.lukas wrote:With a Atari ST the Alternate Ram has with a Magnum ST or a MonSTer the same Speed as ST Ram ...

That's ST, and it has no slowdowns (waiting to access RAM because video has priority) because of video.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Postby Ektus » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:01 am

joska wrote:It can only be used with 1Mb or 4Mb in the normal RAM slot. It offers 4Mb or 8Mb of "alt-RAM".

It also has a mode to have a 8MB SIMM installed, but provide only 6MB RAM and leave the remainder for the nova Falcon graphics card.


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