EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

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EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby Fujiyama » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:01 pm

Are there any EPROM programmers (which are still possible to get hold of, for not too much money) for the Atari ST platform? My other computer is a Mac and most stuff like that is Windows-only.
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby MM41 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:04 pm

Yes, but you must make them (many plan on the web, i do a single 27C256 programmer on cartridge port)
else try to found a MAXON junior prommer like this http://gossuin.be/index.php/archives/28 ... r-atari-st. (thanks oliverg!!)
It's the same ST AMIGA (just move two jumpers)
What is the EPROM type do you want use?

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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby Fujiyama » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:05 pm

Are the Maxon Junior prommers easy to find and not too expensive?
DIY projects are great except for those from the 80s/90s where you need to photo-transfer and etch your own PCBs. Or redesign it all in something like Eagle if you want the PCB professionaly done.

I don't know all of the EPROMs I might need programmed, but mostly from old (80s/90s) synthesizers and drum machines (2716, 2732, 2764, 27128 etc.) and perhaps also TOS ROMs for the Atari ST.
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby MM41 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:45 pm

May be SCOOTER-PCB can convert the original PCBs to modern GERBER format?

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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby Fujiyama » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:24 pm

Yes, for those projects that include such files, but most of them have PCB layout images which you optically have to transfer and etch.
Are there any EPROM programmer DIY projects out there with Scooter files?
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby frank.lukas » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:42 pm

You can build the Maxon Prommer on Veroboard and for 1Mbit Eprom for TOS you need the Mega Adapter too ...

The Junior Prommer costs via Ebay 100,- Euro !

junior_1.gif


junior_2.gif
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby frank.lukas » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:44 pm

When you have a WIN PC buy a cheap china G540 programmer ...
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby siriushardware » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:19 pm

If this is something you are going to use to back up old eproms (very sensible idea) you don't really need one which is computer connected. There are a few old standalone models with built in keypads and displays which will let you just read an eprom placed in the socket into their internal RAM, and then program a second eprom with whatever was read from the first.

Depending on your ability / patience with microprocessors and a little bit of analogue circuitry you could put together something which would do this using one of the larger (many pins) Arduinos and some extra circuitry to generate / regulate and control the programming voltage. Physically / mechanically speaking the most complicated thing about it is handling the way the programming pins / power pins / high order address pins move around or come and go from device to device.

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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby DarkLord » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:20 pm

frank.lukas wrote:When you have a WIN PC buy a cheap china G540 programmer ...


When I was working on my STacy, installing the Pak 68/3 board and needed to program several
chips including the modified TOS v3.06 ones, I bought the GS540. I know other people have had
good luck with it and used it without problems. In my case, I never could get it to produce working
chips. I sold it to another Atari user (who said it was something to do with making sure it got enough
power from a USB port or something like that). I bought a German Batronix model and everything
worked fine.

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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby olivierg » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:10 pm

Hi,

I have started the project and create new PCB of Junior Prommer, using SMD ic (for the fun):
I try to assembled and test this week-end.

IMG_20170208_124328.jpg


But, it's true, the good solution is order low cost USB programmer and installe windows using VirtualBox (Free, not windows).

If needed i can create Gerber File from scooter and you can send file to PCB Manufacturer like https://www.itead.cc/ is very low cost for 10 PCB.

Thanks
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby AtariZoll » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:32 pm

What I can recommend today is that forget any programmer what can programming only classic EPROMs. Flash EPROMs are much cheaper and easier to find. So, programmer what can Flash EPROMs too. They are pretty much same as classic EPROM when using in oldies.
This: http://atari.8bitchip.info/eprprg.htm
is my old design, and it can program ATMEL and AMD Flash EPROMs beside classic EPROMs, and probably some others, but then need to add specific code for them.
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby Gaiyan » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:57 pm

Can someone tell me what the jumper settings on the Junior Prommer are for Atari ST?
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby MM41 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:18 pm

Look at the oliverg's site in post#2 ☺(you can see the jumpers on the pictures)

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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby Rustynutt » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:41 pm

BP Microsystems EP-1

Scavenged this a while back. From the research I've done, it does have software you can use, pre;tty sure it was XP_.
But you can also just use a terminal program.
I has a built in library of IC's, and it's possible to upgrade.

See no problem why it couldn't be used on an Atari system.
I also have the Maxom, but your are limited to GALS, least with the one I have.

Found the adapter on eBay for the EP-1
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby Gaiyan » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:19 am

MM41 wrote:Look at the oliverg's site in post#2 ☺(you can see the jumpers on the pictures)


Ah, of course. Thanks!
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby Greenious » Wed May 31, 2017 1:13 pm

I got an EP 16/512 from Rolf Rocke computer I can let go for a fair price.
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby Fujiyama » Wed May 31, 2017 2:05 pm

AtariZoll wrote:What I can recommend today is that forget any programmer what can programming only classic EPROMs. Flash EPROMs are much cheaper and easier to find. So, programmer what can Flash EPROMs too. They are pretty much same as classic EPROM when using in oldies.


Are Flash EPROMs pin by pin compatible with EPROMs? For instance, replacing 2716, 27c256 etc.
If so, where can I find a list which tells which Flash EPROM corresponds to a certain EPROM?
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby Greenious » Wed May 31, 2017 2:22 pm

Fujiyama wrote:
AtariZoll wrote:What I can recommend today is that forget any programmer what can programming only classic EPROMs. Flash EPROMs are much cheaper and easier to find. So, programmer what can Flash EPROMs too. They are pretty much same as classic EPROM when using in oldies.


Are Flash EPROMs pin by pin compatible with EPROMs? For instance, replacing 2716, 27c256 etc.
If so, where can I find a list which tells which Flash EPROM corresponds to a certain EPROM?


I believe they got prefix 29F instead of 27C.
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby AtariZoll » Wed May 31, 2017 2:46 pm

Fujiyama wrote:Are Flash EPROMs pin by pin compatible with EPROMs? For instance, replacing 2716, 27c256 etc.
If so, where can I find a list which tells which Flash EPROM corresponds to a certain EPROM?

Not 100% compatible. Main pins - GND, D0-D7, most of address pins are on same pos. Minor modifications may be needed.
And you will not find Flash EPROMs of such small capacity like 2716. I think that there are no even 28 pin ones. Only 32 or more.
Not counting of course serial EPROMs.
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby siriushardware » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:10 pm

siriushardware wrote:
AtariZoll wrote:I think that there are no even 28 pin ones. Only 32 or more.
Not counting of course serial EPROMs.


We have been using the Winbond 27E512, which has 28 pins, in an old product range for many years now. In read mode, I believe it is a drop-in (pin for pin) replacement for 27C512 eproms.

I'm not sure if it is a Flash IC in the usual sense of the word, it is an "Electrically Erasable Eprom" which can be rapidly programmed and erased many times over in a Flash-like way.

Very useful back in the days when the alternative was to wait for 20 minutes while you UV-erased an eprom in order to try out a minor code change.

There is a simple dodge you can do to make an easily available 'large' 28-pin device (like a 27C512) substitute for an older smaller capacity 28-pin device such as a 27C256, for example.

Consider the 27C512 as containing two 'virtual' 27C256s. In this case you would program your code into the 27C512 from 0000H as normal, but also place another copy of the code at 8000H. The effect of doing so is that the device delivers the same output code no matter whether the 27C512's A15 pin (which does not exist on a real 27C256) is held high or low.

You get the idea...

You can use higher capacity 28-pin eproms as substitutes for lower capacity 28-pin eproms if you program multiple images of the code at appropriate places throughout the larger chip. The only thing to watch for is untied / unconnected higher address pins when a larger device is plugged into a socket intended for a smaller device. For example, pin 26 on a 27C64 is 'NC' - not connected, so pin 26 of the socket may not be connected to anything. If using a 27C512 in place of the original 27C64 device, pin 26 of the socket would ideally have to be strapped either high or low if not already tied in one state or the other. It might not actually matter since the device will be programmed to output the same code whether A13 is high or low, but it is not good practice to leave a digital input flapping about in an unknown state.

The same trick goes for 24-pin eproms, so if you need a 27C32 and only have a 27C64, program copies of the 27C32 code into the 27C64 at 0000H and 1000H.

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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:28 am

Thanx siriushardware. I used what you described. For example here: http://atari.8bitchip.info/flashest.php
The problem with Flash EPROMs now is that it is hard to find them in shops. Even some not so old types like AM29Fxxxx were disappeared from shops, or they have only not DIL versions. I never seen something like 27E512 , So, I guess that we are on online shops, e-bay,
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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby iggydrougge » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:48 am

I have an old one from REX Datentechnik. Connects to the cartridge port. But I don't use it since I've got an ALL-07, the prince of EPROM programmers.

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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby siriushardware » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:54 pm

iggydrougge wrote:I've got an ALL-07, the prince of EPROM programmers.


Me too (ALL-07A, in my case) but I have to maintain a couple of DOS computers (one desktop, one Laptop) in working order to ensure that I will be able to continue to use it. I bought mine new in about 1997 and it cost me a huge amount of money for an individual (as opposed to a business or a software house) to pay, but I am still using it even now.

Have you ever tried using yours on a more modern PC (either Windows or Linux) with DOSBOX and a USB to Parallel Port adaptor cable?

Instinct has always suggested to me that the interface probably requires realtime manipulation of the hardware parallel port lines during communications with the ALL-07, but I would be interested to know if anyone has ever tried it.

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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby iggydrougge » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:51 am

siriushardware wrote:Have you ever tried using yours on a more modern PC (either Windows or Linux) with DOSBOX and a USB to Parallel Port adaptor cable?

No, but I know that there is a patched version of ACCESS.EXE that works under Windows XP. I personally run mine on a pizza-slice Pentium.

Parallel-to-USB will never work since those adapters don't have the necessary real-time characteristics.

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Re: EPROM programmer for the Atari ST?

Postby siriushardware » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:25 am

iggydrougge wrote:I know that there is a patched version of ACCESS.EXE that works under Windows XP. I personally run mine on a pizza-slice Pentium.


Do you have a link to that patched version, or would you mind attaching it to a post here? (If allowed).

iggydrougge wrote:Parallel-to-USB will never work since those adapters don't have the necessary real-time characteristics.


That was my assumption, but I don't know for sure how 'smart' the programmer is and how much it relies on the host PC for event timing.

Scenario #1: The PC does everything, including the precise timing for such things as programming pulse lengths, and the programmer just provides the hardware interface / signal routing to the correct device pins and generates programming voltages.

Scenario #2: The programmer is relatively smart and the interface is just used for the parallel transfer of data and commands. All critical timing is handled by / inside the programmer itself.

In the case of scenario #2, I see no reason why it would not work as long as hardware handshaking is used to regulate the back-and forth flow of data and commands over the parallel interface. (I forget what the hardware handshaking lines are called on a parallel port, but they are essentially the equivalent of the RTS/CTS lines on a serial port).

In theory we could write an entirely new support program in (say) Python which would be cross-platform, and combine that with a USB connected Arduino providing the precisely timed control interface. Or these two items could be combined into one on something like a Raspberry Pi which can run Python / can support a keyboard and screen for high level user interface interaction and also has a hardware I/O port, although signal level shifting (5V to 3V) would be required in that case. Unfortunately the PI presents a particular problem in the sense that it does not have an 8-bit wide parallel I/O port. (To read or write a parallel byte on the Pi, 8 individual bits have to be read or written to consecutively, which makes parallel input/output less immediate than it should be).

Even if all of that were to be overcome we'd still need to be able to fully understand the format of the device support files. I have a feeling these were usually closed-format to prevent people from easily modifying them to add support for unsupported devices, on the grounds that they might make a mess of it and damage the reputation of the device programmer.

All of which makes it easier, for the time being, just to keep a couple of old DOS machines running so I can continue to run the programmer. And I do still use it. I needed it just this week to programme a couple of replacement PROM / ROM devices for someone with a Z80-based system dating from the late 1970s.


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