project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

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chance227
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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby chance227 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:29 am

Tenox,

Well we have been a busy boy!!
An adapter just like this over in Oz would be like heaven just opened its doors, we just can't get the big Atari monitors over here, I have only seen two of them in the last 20-25 years and they were on there last legs.
Something like what you are doing would be a great benefit to any one doing midi work with Notator, Cubase and Smptetrack etc .. when you have any final prices for the unit, let me know I'll take one for sure

chance227

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Idek Tramielski
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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby Idek Tramielski » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:09 am

Great work Tenox!
I am definitely going to buy one or maybe two adapters. Please keep us posted.

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby Musicianaa » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:26 pm

Great work and well done. I am also in for one. Please keep me informed ! :D

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby jok » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:48 pm

Yes, great work Tenox! I am also in for one (if we would really get some people in and price will drop to ~100, I will get two).

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby dbsys » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:13 am

As stated before, I am in for one too.

Please keep up the good work, tenox.

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby tenox » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:32 pm

I believe I owe some update.

So we had everything working perfectly on the original board + some additional components on a breadboard. The picture was well, perfect. Unfortunately once everything was combined on a factory printed PCB, problems started . There was interference, shadows, white bars and other stuff. Now we are at 3rd or 4th PCB reprint and most problems are solved except some hopefully last jitter interference. Fingers crossed the next PCB reprint will be the last. :mrgreen:

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby dbsys » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:16 am

tenox wrote:I believe I owe some update.

So we had everything working perfectly on the original board + some additional components on a breadboard. The picture was well, perfect. Unfortunately once everything was combined on a factory printed PCB, problems started . There was interference, shadows, white bars and other stuff. Now we are at 3rd or 4th PCB reprint and most problems are solved except some hopefully last jitter interference. Fingers crossed the next PCB reprint will be the last. :mrgreen:


tenox, thanks for the update. Looks like you are getting it done perfectly. Keep up the great work. I am sure it will be rewared!

Thumbs up!

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby qq1975b » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:32 am

I will get one too :)
Trying to learn...

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project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby DOB » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:52 am

Put me on the list for one.
Cheers,
dOb

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby mfro » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:50 am

I'd definitively take two if you. Great work so far - I'm impressed how much (professional) effort you put into making a satisfying hobby product :cheers:

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby Spacedcowboy » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:35 pm

I'll take one too. I'm actually planning on making a vme card display, but there'll be a lot of TT coding needing to be done, and a high resolution display makes that much easier :)

I'm assuming you'll announce the adapter in this thread once you start taking orders, so I'll subscribe :)

Ps: kinda handy that you're just around the corner :)

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby Dal » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:34 am

@Tenox - Any update on this?
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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby Crash » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:24 pm

I would like one! Thanks

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby dbsys » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:04 am

tenox wrote:I believe I owe some update.

So we had everything working perfectly on the original board + some additional components on a breadboard. The picture was well, perfect. Unfortunately once everything was combined on a factory printed PCB, problems started . There was interference, shadows, white bars and other stuff. Now we are at 3rd or 4th PCB reprint and most problems are solved except some hopefully last jitter interference. Fingers crossed the next PCB reprint will be the last. :mrgreen:


Hi tenox. I was wondering how you were getting along with development?

Thanks for another update.

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby tenox » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:47 am

Yes, there is an update. Sorry for a long delay but there were issues. There still are some but we now believe nothing else can be done and you'll just have to live with them.

tenoxvga.jpg


Today I have received few test units. They are going to some "beta testers". If you are in an urgent need I can probably sell one or two units. PM.

I will send photos attached to Atari tomorrow or the day after.

Regards!
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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby jok » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:17 pm

Great to hear that the prototypes are finished. Can you describe the issues you mentioned?

(I declared interest but for me it is not urgent -- although I still want one of course)

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby tenox » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:34 am

Okay first the good stuff... some pictures:

cubase0.jpg


calamus0.jpg


:megaphone:
The bad stuff... there are three unresolved problems:


1. Missing 64 pixels... Just kidding, but the problem is that TTHIGH resolution is 1280x960 whereas MOST LCD panels are made to work with 1280x1024 making a 60 pixel difference vertically. And MOST LCD panels will stretch the display non proportionally, as in not preserving the aspect ratio. Now add to it 1 bit display and Atari's favorite 50% raster pattern. Whats the result? Moire. In order to use the adapter you will have to have an LCD panel that supports so called "1:1 pixel mapping mode", sometimes also called "scaling off", "expansion off", "1:1 wide mode", or "1:1 aspect mode". If your LCD panel doesn't have these, the result will be horrible. I pretty much support only with one LCD panel type NEC 19" LCD1990SXi. So far it's the only LCD panel that works correctly in TTHIGH. Fortunately you can pick them up cheaply on eBay. I've paid for mine $49.95. And it matches color with Atari!

2. Furthermore some LCD displays that can go in to 1:1 pixel mapping still display moire. This is to do with anti-aliasing settings. Some LCD panels adjust correctly some don't. Nothing can be done about this. The only sure solution is the previously mentioned NEC 19" LCD1990SXi flat panel which works correctly.

3. Artifacts and smudges. If you look closely you can see them on some of the screenshots. Update: these were corrected by adjusting the LCD panel. Another reason you want to use NEC 19" LCD1990SXi.
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Last edited by tenox on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby mfro » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:33 am

I guess from the photos the quality is still a lot better compared to my fading SM194 that got a very blurry, dark display due to age. I'm definitely up to one of your adapters.
Where do I have to send money to? :D

Great work!

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby dbsys » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:05 pm

Thanks, tenox , for the update.

I think, this still is very good news.

I will stick to my plan and will get one of these as soon as the production run has been finished.

Please keep me in the loop as to when to order and how to pay. Thanks.

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby tenox » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:24 am

OK so I spent little bit more time today and by replacing the VGA cable with a better one and adjusting some monitor settings I was able to remove all the imperfections. The screen is now perfectly black and white and has no smudges or artifacts what so ever.

:cheers:

Unfortunately these monitor settings are not available in any other LCD panel as far as I can tell. For this and the resolution problem, if you want to use the adapter and have a decent quality you better start looking for NEC 19" LCD1990SXi. You can get them on eBay for $50.

Pictures:

cubase6.jpg


cubase4.jpg


calamus2.jpg


calamus1.jpg
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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby alanh » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:55 am

Can I ask the price on these ?

Thanks!
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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby dbsys » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:27 pm

I think, these pictures look great!

Well done, good job.

So I will start looking around for a NEC 19" LCD1990SXi :)


tenox wrote:OK so I spent little bit more time today and by replacing the VGA cable with a better one and adjusting some monitor settings I was able to remove all the imperfections. The screen is now perfectly black and white and has no smudges or artifacts what so ever.

:cheers:

Unfortunately these monitor settings are not available in any other LCD panel as far as I can tell. For this and the resolution problem, if you want to use the adapter and have a decent quality you better start looking for NEC 19" LCD1990SXi. You can get them on eBay for $50.

Pictures:


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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby tenox » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:53 pm

If you want a good quality you better do that. And make sure to get a white one ;)

So NEC has different models in the 1990 range. For instance SX, FX, FXP. They have different LCD panels from different vendors. They actually may work differently. I have tested on SXi only. SXi is unique as far as I know because it has S-IPS panel. Found somewhere on the web: "S-IPS = Super In-Plane Switching. These are high end and really expensive LCD panels. All these panels are 8-bit panels and comes the closest to CRT image quality." - so maybe that's why it works on this one so well.



dbsys wrote:I think, these pictures look great!

Well done, good job.

So I will start looking around for a NEC 19" LCD1990SXi :)

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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby Ektus » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:06 pm

tenox wrote:Unfortunately these monitor settings are not available in any other LCD panel as far as I can tell. For this and the resolution problem, if you want to use the adapter and have a decent quality you better start looking for NEC 19" LCD1990SXi. You can get them on eBay for $50.


Are you sure? I've got a HP LP2065 (20" 1600x1200), and that one offers a bunch of manual settings for picture quality, including 1:1 (no scaling). It would be sub-optimal, though, as large parts of the screen would remain black.

I haven't got a TT, so no problem for me, but I would recommend checking business monitors from back then.

Provided it did work, that is. On the Falcon (videl) in 640x480, it does. On the Radeon (CTPCI) set to 1280x960-16@70Hz and @60Hz it falsely recognizes 1599x1399@60Hz :(

That's connected through DVI, though. Let's try VGA... Okay, it works. Moiré-free with big black borders for the real SM124 feeling :angel:

Screen diagonal is 512mm (20,1"), display size of 960x600 in 1:1 is 409mm (16,1").


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Re: project idea: ECL signal adapter for TT-High...

Postby lp » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:41 pm

I have a TT030 with VME video card so I'm not really interesting in buying such a device, but I must say, impressive work! :cheers:


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