Ym2149 Tracker for Win. New Version 04-11-2012

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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 17-12-2011

Postby FedePede04 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:15 am

Hi i have uploaded a new version

New function

ctrl+s Step mode step thu the score with sound, using arrow up/down keys.
change the About screen into an old style Demo. (remember to play some music)

Download link in the first post.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=21499
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:57 am

Hi i have uploaded a new version

only some minor bugfix
i have also uploade 2 picture of the gfx interface for my Atari ST player.

Download link in the first post.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=21499
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby MiggyMog » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:28 pm

The ST player is looking interesting. I will need to have play with the tracker again soon!
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:04 am

MiggyMog wrote:The ST player is looking interesting. I will need to have play with the tracker again soon!


Thanks Miggymog.
right now the process is going very slow,
the Gfx interface i nearly finish, and you can load a score, that about it.
so it will take some time before the player is finish.
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby !cube » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:57 am

Just out of curiosity, have you tested the replayer on a REAL Atari ST? How much CPU time does a 6x replay rate tune take with all the bells and whistles on, like 16 step synth sounds on each channel?

The format has some nice features like the controllable PW which is absent from all the other trackers that are out there. I'm just curious whether one can even replay the tunes with a real Atari.
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:13 pm

!cube wrote:Just out of curiosity, have you tested the replayer on a REAL Atari ST? How much CPU time does a 6x replay rate tune take with all the bells and whistles on, like 16 step synth sounds on each channel?

The format has some nice features like the controllable PW which is absent from all the other trackers that are out there. I'm just curious whether one can even replay the tunes with a real Atari.


No not yet.
i have made a player that does 5x, on the Atari ST
it is not all thing that is running 6x, it is only FX like vibrato, amp, arpeggio.
the score decoding and envelope is only running 50HZ.

but you are right, i don't know how it will sound on a real Atari,
but i think i will could be done, or else i have to tune the 2 program so they sound the same.
but i need to have my Atari player finish before i know where i stand.

here is some links to my old St-player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD-jjZYlqOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZRVNRWVJcI
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby !cube » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:17 pm

IMHO currently your format has only one advantage over Maxymizer, that is the controllable pulse width. For me, your format doesn't quite cut it, as it's missing a few features that I use frequently.

First and the most important feature that it's missing is a waveform table. This is the corner stone of pretty much every decent editor that is out there. In your format, you only address the fact that one might want to have noise at the start of the sound. As an example, for proper snare sounds, this just won't do as you need to be able to play noise in different frames of the sound, not just in the beginning.

The second most important feature you already have, the arpeggio table, but it's limited. In your format, it's only 16 steps long. If one would like to use higher replay rates for more interesting sounds, like a snare sound which sounds almost like a sample, 16 steps is just too few.

Thirdly, it doesn't have sync buzzers. These are kind of de facto in today's YM music.

There are a couple of other things missing that should definitely be there like the ability to control the volume of synth modulator, it's pitch with a command in the score, and whether vibrato affects it or just the tone. Also the ability to disable selected timers and have sync point commands is useful if one is trying to use the format in a demo.

I don't mean to be overly critical so I have to say that you've done a great job at providing another editor to scene, that I'm sure some people will use. To someone like me, who is used to doing things the hard way, writing sounds as hex numbers, it's just too limited.
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:08 pm

!cube wrote:IMHO currently your format has only one advantage over Maxymizer, that is the controllable pulse width. For me, your format doesn't quite cut it, as it's missing a few features that I use frequently.

First and the most important feature that it's missing is a waveform table. This is the corner stone of pretty much every decent editor that is out there. In your format, you only address the fact that one might want to have noise at the start of the sound. As an example, for proper snare sounds, this just won't do as you need to be able to play noise in different frames of the sound, not just in the beginning.

The second most important feature you already have, the arpeggio table, but it's limited. In your format, it's only 16 steps long. If one would like to use higher replay rates for more interesting sounds, like a snare sound which sounds almost like a sample, 16 steps is just too few.

Thirdly, it doesn't have sync buzzers. These are kind of de facto in today's YM music.

There are a couple of other things missing that should definitely be there like the ability to control the volume of synth modulator, it's pitch with a command in the score, and whether vibrato affects it or just the tone. Also the ability to disable selected timers and have sync point commands is useful if one is trying to use the format in a demo.

I don't mean to be overly critical so I have to say that you've done a great job at providing another editor to scene, that I'm sure some people will use. To someone like me, who is used to doing things the hard way, writing sounds as hex numbers, it's just too limited.


Hi !cube
Thanks for the input I appreciate it very much, i could had use some more constructive criticism over the time.
that i properly one of the reason that the windows version is on halt.

some of the things i never got finish i the windows version.

Animate Waveforms
Sample sound.
chain Fx.
the ability to turn on/off vib, arpeggio, bend for tone/wave

and a lot of edit functions.

the idea behind my tracker.

before i switch over to the pc, i did a lot of small program that i never got to finish.
so i decided to try to make some of the thing that i never got finish.

i needed some music to my demos and games, so i decide to make a new music player that was build around my last player for the atari.
i chose to use windows to make the editor, because off all the thing you get when programing i windows.

the most impotent thing for me, was i should be easy to make music in, so you don't have to have a Doctor degree i tracking.
the few i know there still make music don't want to use a lot of time to make sounds, they need good sound with out too much fiddling.
but of course it is a tradeoff the sound will be more static, like midi (PCM) sounds.

so for many the program will properly be to simple, but that is ok, they have a tons of tracker they can use,
but the program is made so all can use it, and get some music in the programs/games. (I will release the source code for the player)

the way i made my old synth wave player, was it only turn on the timer if there was a note that required a timer,
so if you only use standard YM sound then none of the timer was turn on.

i have a couple of question.

waveform table what exactly does that do? . do you control the noise on/off ? . (i don't know, if it is this you mean, but you can make you own wave forms)

i thou that the sync buzzers was to reset the tone and the buzzer so that you align the two wave forms. you can do that i my program.

you can chose to use arpeggio as a score FX instead of. so you can change it every steep.

Thanks again for you took the time to test my player/editor.
Best Regards
Peter
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby MiggyMog » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:30 pm

i could had use some more constructive criticism over the time.
that i properly one of the reason that the windows version is on halt.


Maybe people were trying not to put you off making the windows tracker :D

I quite like the idea of making use the chip in more or less form without the timer effects to start with. This way it could be used for ST, CPC, Spectrum too. A couple of things I may like to see is detachable panels for the different areas so that you could hide/move these about. Also, TriSound/SSD had a nice grid for drawing instruments, which was really nice to use instead of always punching in numbers, especially for people new to it.
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby !cube » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:35 pm

I totally understand why you'd make the editor in Windows instead of for the Atari, on Windows you don't need to have super fast routines for everything. I'd actually prefer a Windows editor instead working on the ST, but one would need to have better emulation of the soundchip so it REALLY replays the same as the hardware. Current emulation in STeem isn't up to par either but I still do most of my composing with it. I just do the final mixing on a real ST.

I also completely understand why you'd want to make the editor simple to use. Typing in sounds with hexcodes is a bit of a pain but that's what most soundchip composers on the ST, and on other platforms as well, are used to.

A waveform table is like an arpeggio table but instead of changing the note of the sound, it changes the waveform. For example, a note table like this in MyM:

11 00
01 00
01 05

would play noise+tone on first frame, plain tone on second frame, and tone+sid on third. The first column represents noise, second is tone, third is buzzer, and the fourth is, what you would call, synth.
A 1 in one of the first three columns sets noise, tone or buzzer on respectively, 0 sets them off. The fourth column can be either 0=off, 5=sid/pwm, B=sync buzzer, or D=digi. On C64, a waveform table might look like this:

80 00
40 0C
40 00
10 00

Where the first frame will play noise, second will play pulse with a transpose of $C (12 in decimal), third will play pulse with no transpose, fourth will play triangle wave. On C64, waveform tables usually include the arpeggio in them as well. That wavetable is how, with only a few exception, all C64 editors work. One can create much more rich snare sounds with this mechanism, as well as more creative sounds when using higher replay rates than 50Hz.

A sync buzzer is done like a PWM effect, one resets the buzz wave using a timer. Changing the frequency of the timer, one gets a sync modulation effect.

Using score FX arpeggio isn't as versatile as an arpeggio table as you only change the arpeggio on each note, instead of changing it on each tick (or frame, which ever word you prefer).
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:34 pm

Hi Miggymog

MiggyMog wrote:Maybe people were trying not to put you off making the windows tracker :D

Could Be :D

serious i think there could be many reason, one could be, then some try it, they think 'no this is not for me' (so instead of saying what they don't like, they say noting)
and also in the beginning there was many bugs, and it was not so user friendly, you had to set the sound, buffer, clk skip up.
and i also know that some time when you enter a thread, you just don't know what to say.
i know there could be 1000 reason why people don't comment, it brother me in the beginning but now, i am ok with it, i just don't think the program will be as good as it wold had been if more had say that they think of the program good/bad/bugs.

the GFX interface will properly be like it is now, i had not programming for 11 year so than i started again, i made a lot of bad choice, if i should change the GFX, then it would properly be easy to start all over again. and i don't think, that i am in the mood for that :lol:

no the thing with the timer is more like this, lets say that you have one timer for the score decoding, so if you are using a synth wave sound in channel one it will turn on an other timer, and if you are using, synth wave sound in all channels it will use all 4 timer interrupts.

btw. if you like to check out my interface for the atari, when i have uploade the program here
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=22755

Best Regards
Peter
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:29 pm

!cube wrote:I totally understand why you'd make the editor in Windows instead of for the Atari, on Windows you don't need to have super fast routines for everything. I'd actually prefer a Windows editor instead working on the ST, but one would need to have better emulation of the soundchip so it REALLY replays the same as the hardware. Current emulation in STeem isn't up to par either but I still do most of my composing with it. I just do the final mixing on a real ST.

I also completely understand why you'd want to make the editor simple to use. Typing in sounds with hexcodes is a bit of a pain but that's what most soundchip composers on the ST, and on other platforms as well, are used to.

A waveform table is like an arpeggio table but instead of changing the note of the sound, it changes the waveform. For example, a note table like this in MyM:

11 00
01 00
01 05

would play noise+tone on first frame, plain tone on second frame, and tone+sid on third. The first column represents noise, second is tone, third is buzzer, and the fourth is, what you would call, synth.
A 1 in one of the first three columns sets noise, tone or buzzer on respectively, 0 sets them off. The fourth column can be either 0=off, 5=sid/pwm, B=sync buzzer, or D=digi. On C64, a waveform table might look like this:

80 00
40 0C
40 00
10 00

Where the first frame will play noise, second will play pulse with a transpose of $C (12 in decimal), third will play pulse with no transpose, fourth will play triangle wave. On C64, waveform tables usually include the arpeggio in them as well. That wavetable is how, with only a few exception, all C64 editors work. One can create much more rich snare sounds with this mechanism, as well as more creative sounds when using higher replay rates than 50Hz.

A sync buzzer is done like a PWM effect, one resets the buzz wave using a timer. Changing the frequency of the timer, one gets a sync modulation effect.

Using score FX arpeggio isn't as versatile as an arpeggio table as you only change the arpeggio on each note, instead of changing it on each tick (or frame, which ever word you prefer).


Thanks for the explanation,
there is no doubt that you can make better sound in the way your describe, but now we are back to the thing, where you need a Doctor degrees in tracker.
in my personally view, i think there are more to good chip sound music. then just very good sounds, i think that the music in self is very impotent,
i talk to Thomas, one of my friends there still is making music, and he think it would kill his creative if he should use a lot of time making sounds.
but i think we are all diffident so it is good there is diffident choice for us all.

Again Many thanks for the input
Best Regards
Peter
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby !cube » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:33 am

In my opinion, this doesn't require a doctor's degree. If you're used to trackers in general, you're used to using hexadecimal tables, as the command byte for each note is one as well. I find new trackers for Windows, like Renoise, far more complicated to use than any C64 or Atari ST editor. And it doesn't take ages to make sounds once you've familiarized yourself with the mechanics for a few times.

As an example, it took me longer to understand how the sound generation is done in your editor than it would've taken me to create a snare sound with a wave table. It's all about what you're used to, if you're used to using sliders and stuff to create sounds, you're more at home with an editor that uses that approach.

Composing and sound design are different things of course. But for more experienced people, they go hand in hand and any restrictions on either of them makes a tool unsatisfying.

However, you've done a great job at providing a tool that is quite easy to jump into and I'm sure some beginning soundchip composers can get used to it quickly. For a more seasoned soundchip artist, it's not as appealing as some other editors.
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 29-01-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:04 am

!cube wrote:In my opinion, this doesn't require a doctor's degree. If you're used to trackers in general, you're used to using hexadecimal tables, as the command byte for each note is one as well. I find new trackers for Windows, like Renoise, far more complicated to use than any C64 or Atari ST editor. And it doesn't take ages to make sounds once you've familiarized yourself with the mechanics for a few times.

As an example, it took me longer to understand how the sound generation is done in your editor than it would've taken me to create a snare sound with a wave table. It's all about what you're used to, if you're used to using sliders and stuff to create sounds, you're more at home with an editor that uses that approach.

Composing and sound design are different things of course. But for more experienced people, they go hand in hand and any restrictions on either of them makes a tool unsatisfying.

However, you've done a great job at providing a tool that is quite easy to jump into and I'm sure some beginning soundchip composers can get used to it quickly. For a more seasoned soundchip artist, it's not as appealing as some other editors.


Hi !cube
i agree 100% with you that if you are use to computer numbers when it is properly not so hard to understand,
and also if you have use stander tracker for many years, and you are in to how you make sounds and track why change.
but my tracker was not intended for those people, of course i would be Horner, if some use it. i also think there are better tracker out there if you are a hardcore tracker musician.
but i still think if you never have made any music before, that my approach wold be easier.

i remind me of a teacher I once had in Electronic, he say that he love electronic because there was so many standards, so you could always find one that suit you.
and the same here, if you don't think that, it is something for you, then you have a lot of other choice.

but don't miss understand me, i am very great full that you toke the time to test my program and for the feedback.
Best Regards
Peter
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows update 10-02-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:39 am

Hi i have uploaded a new version

----- New function -----
Delete note+inst+Fx : Alt+Delete Delete Note, Instrument and FX in the you stand in.

----- Change in program -----
Overwrite Dialog : it now show in the overwrite dialog with file that will be overwrite

----- Bug Fix -----

Syntax Error check : i did a Syntax Error check and i found some minor ini bugs.
Save instrument banks : remove a bug that prevented then sound bank pack correct
Save score : Fix Bug saving under wrong filename

Download link in the first post.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=21499

Here is a new version of Mighty Mouse this is the version with only standard ym-sound,
i have change the drums to synth wave sounds in it.

remember to put the score in the tracker dir and ins bank to the instrument bank.
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows New Version 10-02-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:23 pm

Hi.

i have just uploaded a cover version of JMJ Equinoxe VII.

It is not finish yet. there for only this mp3 file.

Ups i uploaded thee wrong version there is a couple of note wrong in the bass.
so here is the right version,

JMJ- Equinoxe 7 test right.mp3


Forward Now by Thomas Canell
Some of the sound is remade by Peter Jørgensen

Forward now.mp3

BR
Peter.
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Last edited by FedePede04 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows New Version 10-02-2012

Postby nativ » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:21 pm

nice sounds, keep it up! 8)
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows New Version 10-02-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:30 pm

Thanks Nativ.
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows New Version 10-02-2012

Postby Kreese » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:26 pm

I've got problems, that the sound is sounding like there is a speedproblem. When exporting the song I play to WAV it sounds great! Hmmm...

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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows New Version 10-02-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:33 am

Kreese wrote:I've got problems, that the sound is sounding like there is a speedproblem. When exporting the song I play to WAV it sounds great! Hmmm...


hi
the only times I have experienced it, is when there is an other program that uses wave device.

but it sounds like that you have a buffer under run.
try change the sound buffers, but keep it as low as possible.
or try change the output rate.
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Windows New Version 26-02-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:49 am

Hi i have uploaded a new version

----- New function -----
Center Score : Ctrl+Alt+ Arrow up/down Center Score edit line
Main Screen : add some hotkeys to the main screen.
: ctr+t go to tracker window
: F1 play Tracker score / ym file
: F1 pause Tracker score / ym file
: F3 stop Tracker score / ym file

----- Change in program -----
Key jump : Key jump can be set up to 64.
Row highlights : Row highlights can be set to 16

----- Bug Fix -----
minor bugs
Scroll screen text : Update scroll screen text to 2012
Save Score : Fix update Active Score name when a score have been save
Overwrite Dialog : Add to auto save sound bank function

Download link in the first post.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=21499
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Win. Major Overhaul To The Tracker en

Postby FedePede04 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:21 pm

Hi i have uploaded a new version

the main feature of the beta 12.01.
Unified frequent list, now there are the same space between all the notes,
so i does not matter, if you port and same time have and arpeggio, or one of the source is pitch one octave higher, now they keep in tune.

disadvantage, is you need to change some of the score (instrument vibrato list, FX Portamento rate)


New Function in Beta 12.01
Auto Portamento
Buzzer Vibrato
Buzzer Portamento
Unified frequent list
Turn Tone/Wave on-off in vibrato, bend and arpeggio.
Vibrato Depth
Invert Vibrato for synth wave.

this will properly be the last beta for a long time, except if i find some nasty bugs.

enjoy

Download link in the first post.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=21499
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Win. New Version 29-03-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:50 am

Hi i have uploaded a new version
it is just a minor fix, i was when i made the startup up screen, i came to call an old routine, that should been removed.(it Can mess up the instrument name)

enjoy

Download link in the first post.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=21499
Atari will rule the world, long after man has disappeared

sometime my English is a little weird, Google translate is my best friend :)

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FedePede04
Atari God
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Win. New Version 08-06-2012

Postby FedePede04 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:30 pm

Hi i have uploaded a new version

here the other day, i sat down to play with some of the sounds in one of Canell score, and i could hear that that was an error in the tone-bend routine, after i had a look i found 3 errors 2 small and one big, when I was in the process of the removing those bugs.
I thought that I would change a function, i would have like to change for a while.
the function that i have change is note lock, you can now lock S1, S2 or both
an other function i have change is bend-mode ramp-off, it now turn off the source that it is bending.
so if you are only bending S1 then it will only turn off the sound for S1.

Best Regards
Peter

Download link in the first post.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=21499
Atari will rule the world, long after man has disappeared

sometime my English is a little weird, Google translate is my best friend :)

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BoNuS
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Re: Ym2149 Tracker for Win. New Version 08-06-2012

Postby BoNuS » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:50 pm

I just heard some songs from canell on μCollective made, as I believe, with your tracker. Sounded great !!
http://bonus.home.xs4all.nl/
( I have just to much Atari stuff)


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