The differance between ST and Amiga

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soviet
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some people here don't understand a think about hardware

Postby soviet » Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:52 am

Is not cheating having extra support hardware and for that the amiga 500 is far away better than the atari 520stfm, accept it it have more colors is faster, have better sound, and over all of that it have a better os!, the gem desktop is in rom, monotasking and you ever can't switch tasks, in the other side the amigaos is multitasking and is fast, you can put icons on the the desktop etc. And don't tell mi that atari ste or falcon blabla, the point here is amiga 500 vs atari st 520stfm. If someone whant to speak about the falcon or ste, compare it to the amiga 1200

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Postby tommy vercetti » Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:16 am

This is a bit old isn't it? That's like from a year ago.

Who cares! Screw the Amiga! The only reason they get around it cuz they cheat! WHo needs em!

Hey! Did anyone get aload of that press your luck link? I used to watch both the classic and new press your luck all the time man! Thats until I lost the cable...

That's funny that they got all the films from it and everything! I even downloaded the PC game for my computer!

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Whats better the ST or Amiga?

Postby tjlazer » Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:11 pm

Specs aside, if you would like to see which is better, if you can grab three games and do a comparison:

Marble Madness

Shadow of the Beast

Blood Money

You will clearly see which one is better.

Though most games are about the same, but the above clearly demonstrate and utilize the potential of each system.

I own both Amiga and Atari systems, and both have their pluses and minuses.

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Re: Whats better the ST or Amiga?

Postby Grazey / PHF » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:05 pm

tjlazer wrote:Marble Madness

Shadow of the Beast

Blood Money



SOTB - Crap game, more of a visual display. But prettier on the Amiga.
Marble Madness - Oooh you pick a scrolling game, good idea! better on the Amiga.
Blood Money - Better on the ST (i've played both to death) but still prefer the ST version.

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Re: Whats better the ST or Amiga?

Postby cb » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:44 pm

tjlazer wrote:Specs aside, if you would like to see which is better, if you can grab three games and do a comparison:

Marble Madness

Shadow of the Beast

Blood Money

You will clearly see which one is better.

Though most games are about the same, but the above clearly demonstrate and utilize the potential of each system.

I own both Amiga and Atari systems, and both have their pluses and minuses.


Shadow of the beast: stupid comparison (no pun intended).
The Amiga version is beautiful, it uses well the Amiga capabilities, even if the game is boring.
The ST version is a total failure.Maybe it was coded in ST Basic, or the coders were drunk, or both... :lol:
I don't see the point in comparing a good game (the Amiga version) and a bad game (the ST one) to decide which computer was better.
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Postby ube » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:51 pm

GAH! Major Deja vu! I think I had this discussion some 10-15 years ago... Same same, butt different.. =)
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Postby cb » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:11 pm

ube wrote:GAH! Major Deja vu! I think I had this discussion some 10-15 years ago... Same same, butt different.. =)


hmm?
Sorry, I don't get it.
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Re: some people here don't understand a think about hardware

Postby manicx » Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:44 pm

soviet wrote:the point here is amiga 500 vs atari st 520stfm. If someone whant to speak about the falcon or ste, compare it to the amiga 1200


Well, if you want to compare the Atari 520 STFM to an Amiga, the compare it to the A1000. The STE was released in 89 and this is the equivalent to A500 you like it or not.
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Re: Whats better the ST or Amiga?

Postby tjlazer » Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:49 pm

I don't see the point in comparing a good game (the Amiga version) and a bad game (the ST one) to decide which computer was better.


Do you really think the ST is as good as the Amiga? If you do you are in denial. IMO SOTB is about as good as it gets on the ST, it will never get as good as on the Amiga. It looks like crap because it is in 16 colors. 32 colors sure make a difference don't they? It also runs smoother on the Amiga.

Simpler games like Blood Money can be about the same, but in the Amiga version they added the intro that is why I think the Amiga version is better. But graphically they seem identicle.

Marble madness is terrible on the ST, and it was made by Atari! Go figure.

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Re: Whats better the ST or Amiga?

Postby cb » Wed Mar 10, 2004 5:19 pm

tjlazer wrote:IMO SOTB is about as good as it gets on the ST, it will never get as good as on the Amiga. It looks like crap because it is in 16 colors.


No, it looks like crap because it is a crap conversion.
I don't think 16 colour graphics are crap, like you seem to believe.
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Postby manicx » Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:42 pm

SOTB could have been better if it was programmed by Thalion. They had hardware for 16 colours and their games were going up to 100+. Look at Enchanted Lands! Xcellent stuff...
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Postby Dark Willow » Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:50 pm

I had an Amiga 600 once, quite frankly, I hated it. Having ot use a boot disc was a real drag, and it's true about the disk drive, when I first brought the machine I thought it was broken!

My biggest gripe though was Workbench. I never got on with it the whole six months me and my Amiga spent together. By that time I was so pissed off with Workbench and the genrally flimsy feel of the whole computer I just didn't wan tot know it... and that from someone who usually finds it easier to bond with her computer more than any human! well, bar my g/f :D
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Re: Whats better the ST or Amiga?

Postby Ragstaff » Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:14 am

tjlazer wrote:Specs aside, if you would like to see which is better, if you can grab three games and do a comparison:

Marble Madness

Shadow of the Beast

Blood Money

You will clearly see which one is better.

Though most games are about the same, but the above clearly demonstrate and utilize the potential of each system.

I own both Amiga and Atari systems, and both have their pluses and minuses.


That's not exactly scientific... we all know SOTB was bad, even by ST Standards, and it was good on the Amiga, even by Amiga standards.

To make the Amiga look bad, we could compare games like
Stardust (yes, even against the A1200 version!)
Stunt-car racer (normal st vs a1000 or a500)
... most 3d games in fact

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Postby manicx » Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:23 am

Dark Willow wrote:I had an Amiga 600 once, quite frankly, I hated it. Having ot use a boot disc was a real drag, and it's true about the disk drive, when I first brought the machine I thought it was broken!

My biggest gripe though was Workbench. I never got on with it the whole six months me and my Amiga spent together. By that time I was so pissed off with Workbench and the genrally flimsy feel of the whole computer I just didn't wan tot know it... and that from someone who usually finds it easier to bond with her computer more than any human! well, bar my g/f :D


Even hardcore Amiga users hate the A600. To enjoy WB at least at that stage, you needed a HD and A600 had an IDE interface. Apart from that, it was crap (I still can't play my favourite game, Kick Off 2, on a A600 due to lack of num keypad).
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Postby Gryzor » Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:12 pm

...indeed, crappy conception for a machine, but pretty, ain't it thingie? =)

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Postby Ayreon » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:42 am

Since the quality of games and any software really depends on the skills and talents of the programmers and artists , they don't really make a good benchmark to define wich hardware is better.

It is not hard to tell that the Amiga has the better hardware design for 2d games though.


It's true that Thalion/Eclipse and some others released games on the ST that could easily match the better Amiga games by using clever coding and gfx techniques. Enchanted lands and Leavin Terramis ( i think Lethal Xcess as well ) do break the color limitations in their into's, title -, game over- and static- screen's, but during game play it's still 16 colors isn't it?. It's just not as obvious cos the artists did a very well job on drawing the backdrops and sprites.

Thalion was also responsible for Lionheart on the Amiga and i don't think it is possible to convert it to the ST without loosing too much of the original looks.

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Postby manicx » Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:46 am

Enchanted Lands and many Thalion games had 16+ colours within the game. Enchanted Lands had 16 colours only for the background (the mountains and the other stuff). Add to this the colours for the sprites plus the nice colour stripes in the back and you get the idea. Lethal Xcess, Wings of Death etc were similar.

Some people mentioned Shadow of the Beast before. I still remember that a ST demo used the Shadow of the Beast graphics for the menu screen but I am not sure if it was a rip of the game. I would be interested to make a comparisson nowadays...
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Postby Valkyrie » Wed May 12, 2004 9:44 am

Heh Heh! :D Reminds me of the good old days when I was a teenager battling it out with my brother's friends who had Amigas. (Obviously since I'm a girl none of my own friends were either interested or knew what I was talking about)

Ataris rool, Amigas drool.

Jack Tramiel invented both machines anyway.
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Postby manicx » Wed May 12, 2004 9:48 am

Actually, he didn't invent. He was the manager in both companies. The hardware was invented by engineers...
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Bloomin Commodore

Postby RetroGamerUK » Fri May 14, 2004 6:30 pm

Valkyrie wrote:Heh Heh! :D Reminds me of the good old days when I was a teenager battling it out with my brother's friends who had Amigas. (Obviously since I'm a girl none of my own friends were either interested or knew what I was talking about)

Ataris rool, Amigas drool.

Jack Tramiel invented both machines anyway.


Yea well I remember the even older days of when I first got my beloved Speccy (still got it), and a good friend of mine had a Commodore 64, and I was just as convinced then that my speccy was better than his C64, as I was certain that my ST was better than his Amiga later.
The simple factor for me in both situations was money.
Commodore always had the edge before the consols and PC trounced it into history.
Although I should add at this point that Amigas still have a strong following, and I do actually own a 1200 myself, so I suppose that makes me a bit hypocritical? Nobody's perfect.

I have removed the end bit which was an inpolite gesture towards Valkyrie, for which I appologise, consider my wrists well and truly slapped!
Last edited by RetroGamerUK on Sun May 16, 2004 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Gryzor » Sun May 16, 2004 6:31 am

Well, indeed he did not invent them, I think the only man-behind-the-scenes who actually invented his machines was Sir Sinclair, that incredible guy (hey. if Citroen produces a C5 now, would that be a copyright violation?).

But Tramiel did turn Commodore from a typing machine company to a computing leader... And he did steer Atari into the ST direction (now, this may have been good or bad -wouldn't it be nice to have a VCS 41600 to compete with the PS3?- but it's another story altogether)...

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Re: Bloomin Commodore

Postby Gryzor » Sun May 16, 2004 7:25 am

RetroGamerUK wrote:[edited out]


By gawds, don't you think this is too risque' a comment? I mean, we don't have many girls in here and, yes, the temptation to flirt them (a girl! with a computer! Better than chicks with guns!) is unavoidable, but can't we keep it within polite limits before they run out the door?

Sheesh...

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Last edited by Gryzor on Sun May 16, 2004 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Apology

Postby RetroGamerUK » Sun May 16, 2004 9:56 am

Well you are of course correct.
That was indeed very inpolite and rude, not to mention out of character for me.
So I sincerely appologise to all concerned, especially Valkyrie, I can assure you all that this won't happen again.

Feel free to further tell me off at your leisure if you are not satisfied with this appology, or need to blow off some steam.

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Postby Gryzor » Sun May 16, 2004 10:06 am

It's fine, I guess, but apologise to Valkyrie, not me (: And maybe you can edit your previous post so the comment does not show, as I did with mine?

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edit: much better. let's hope she forgives us :)
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Postby Valkyrie » Tue May 18, 2004 10:29 am

Have I missed something? What did Retrogamer say to me? It's blanked out.

I had (well still have) a Commodore too, because it was what my parents went out and bought when my brother and I decided we wanted a computer for Christmas. As with everyone's parents at the time, the idea was that they would also use it for household accounts and not have to spend too much money on it. Therefore, we didn't get the Commodore 64 everyone else had, but the Commodore Plus/4 which nobody had.

Being different makes you think you are special. I bet everyone had wars with their friends about whose computer was the best. That said, the 64 people had much better games because they had 64k and we only had 16k! We had to copy games from our friends who had Commodore 16s, but hey the Plus/4 was better than the 16!

Love my little 20 year old Commodore.

We got an Atari because my friend had one and I got addicted to playing the Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, so my parents got me one. Yay! I'm sure if I had got an Amiga, I would have loved it too, being a Commodore person previously. But thats the way the cookie crumbles, so now the wars we had with our friends were about Atari being better than Amiga. Thats not to say that Atari was any better or worse than Amiga... it was just something you did when you were that age. I'm sure the Xbox and PS2 people have the same wars now. If you have a load of money you can go out and buy ALL the consoles, then you won't have to choose! But if you had to rely on your parents to give you money, then you only had one computer or console and you had to be loyal to it, didn't you?

I hope I have explained my viewpoint a bit more clearly this time. And finally I would just like to extend a hand of friendship to all Amiga owners out there, and reinforce the point that Atari roolz Amiga droolz nana nana naaaaaaaa :twisted:

:lol: Valkyrie
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