STFM internal IDE ?

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, Greenious, spiny, Moderator Team

ppera

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby ppera » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:08 pm

exxos wrote:...
Could TOS be switchable from 104 to 206 ? Maybe possible to develop a small pcb for this another time... I think I had this as "dual TOS" , but may have only been 102 to 106 or something like that...


Yes. it is described on given link, btw. . All without additional parts - just need different GAL content. PCB is done by Popsel already for that. Look in guides section...

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:16 pm

If it is just a matter of fitting new TOS ROMS's and the GAL switches TOS already with the IDE circuit, then if the SIMM is added on, then would it only need space for new ROMS for the TOS switch to work ?

there could be some small space on the end of the PCB.. Though maybe a problem in obtaining some lines as I only plan to take them from the blitter socket... it would still need a small adapter board to plug into the ROM sockets to obtain some lines...

hmm.. really need a smaller solution for the ROM IC's ?


also, does this relocate 104 address range or just 206 ? I am worried that some software may not like TOS104 being relocated ?

ppera

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby ppera » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:24 pm

By ROM upgrade (to TOS 2.06) must solder some lines (if not want to connect to Glue chip).
Yes, it is just add-on, and changes not IDE IF circuit.
But, when using Flash or ordinary EPROMs with larger capacity then original ROMs need to be removed. In such case is simple to put new, little bigger EPROMs into 28-pin sockets. As I did with intermediate 32-pin sockets between original sockets and Flash EPROMs. Only little soldering is required, but not on ROM chips, so replacing is easy ( not really needed, as can be programmed in machine).

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:46 pm

OK, so if use larger flash for ROM into the normal ROM sockets ?

Well if we have TOS 104 and 206, is 104 relocated to $E00000-$E3FFFF along with 206 ?

Or does the switch keep 104 at $FC0000-$FEFFFF and just switch to TOS206 at $E00000-$E3FFFF ?

I do not know if there is any side effects for relocating TOS104 to $E00000-$E3FFFF ?

In either case, I do not think there is any need to include this on my new pcb.. I think the ROM would be best kept seperatly and just kept in the normal rom sockets as much as possible...

cf.jpg


This is the layout I am thinking. CF will be 1.5" right angle connection direct to PCB... So the PCB just becomes a "blitter to IDE" converter.. PCB will just have a female 2.5" 44pin connector which direct to CF card.

Also there is some space for a right angle connector for a 4MB simm in front of the shifter area..
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

ppera

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby ppera » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:52 pm

exxos wrote:Well if we have TOS 104 and 206, is 104 relocated to $E00000-$E3FFFF along with 206 ?
Or does the switch keep 104 at $FC0000-$FEFFFF and just switch to TOS206 at $E00000-$E3FFFF ?
I do not know if there is any side effects for relocating TOS104 to $E00000-$E3FFFF ?...


No relocation of TOS 1.04 . it works at 'his' address space. Relocating it is possible, but likely some SW would have troubles with different addresses. Certainly, not likely ...

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:54 pm

Thats good then :-) I think it would be best not to relocate 104 :)

I am making good progress with the PCB.. will need someone to check it soon ;-)

Shredder11
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2434
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom (England)
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby Shredder11 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:19 pm

The CF adapter you are using looks a little like the one I plan to buy, which I have pics and links to here:

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14895#p127743

Can yours work as a 2.5" 44pin Master and 3.5" 40pin Slave? What model is your CF adapter and where did you buy it from? I am hoping to slave a CD-ROM or writer to my STe, and I am still trying to figure out what software combination I will need to achieve this.

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:03 pm

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0291002317

The PCB can be set to master or slave, I do not plan on anything else been fitted to the adapter board other than a 44pin CF.. I don't really see the need too, but there are adapters for converting 2.5" to 3.5" and such.. Though anything else will not fit inside the ST.. I don't use a CDROM with my ST either, I don't see any way it could really be done other than just using a external CDROM adapter, maybe plugs into the cart port... Though I think those are around anyway.

You could however use those CF cards with 40pin and 44 pin and just plug into the ST with a cable and use any IDE types you wish.. Though I am only looking into 44pin CF cards, though don't see any reason why you couldn't use 40pin adapters.

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:05 pm

exxos-ide-100.png


Almost there :-) .... well , IDE section anyway, Adding SIMM is going to be really boring :?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:37 pm

exxos-ide-200.png


IDE with 4MB, auto-router having a nice time trying to molish that lot!! :roll:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:56 pm

exxos200.jpg


Overlay of the PCB on the motherboard. Will probably make the board "L" shaped so the physcial board does not get in the way of the GLUE IC...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:12 pm

exxos-B.jpg


Much better 8) Just need someone to check it all now 8O
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
bullis1
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2301
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:32 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby bullis1 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:27 pm

Looks like it will be a very nice piece of hardware. Good job (if it works).
Member of the Atari Legend team

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:38 pm

bullis1 wrote:Looks like it will be a very nice piece of hardware. Good job (if it works).


Don't see it wouldn't work, I used to have the SIMM pluged into the slifter socket, some pics on wiki now I think, PP developed the IDE software so imagine that will work fine too...

User avatar
bullis1
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2301
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:32 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby bullis1 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:41 pm

exxos wrote:
bullis1 wrote:Looks like it will be a very nice piece of hardware. Good job (if it works).

Don't see it wouldn't work, I used to have the SIMM pluged into the slifter socket, some pics on wiki now I think, PP developed the IDE software so imagine that will work fine too...

Yeah I don't really doubt that it will be fine but you never know.
Member of the Atari Legend team

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:32 pm

Have also been thinking if TOS206 support is added on, then I could progress to a 16MB simm ? and the CF IDE should work in 206 better aswell...

Really need a simple switch for all this, that if 104 is selected then it defaults to 1MB, and when 206 is selected it allows the full 16MB to be used. I don't think this would be much of a problem to add, ppepra ?

ppera

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby ppera » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:48 pm

Shredder11 wrote:The CF adapter you are using looks a little like the one I plan to buy, which I have pics and links to here:

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14895#p127743

Can yours work as a 2.5" 44pin Master and 3.5" 40pin Slave? What model is your CF adapter and where did you buy it from? I am hoping to slave a CD-ROM or writer to my STe, and I am still trying to figure out what software combination I will need to achieve this.


Usually IDE-CF adapters have Master/Slave selecting jumper, so it is not issue.
For CF best is to buy some Sandisk.
I need to try it with some CD or DVD ROM... It should work with Hddriver after reconfiguring it in Hddrutil...
Although, I don't see idea to write CDs with ST as good.
Also, don't see much perspective in 16MB expansion of ST. It is possible to use max. 14 MB of such RAM, as TOS and HW takes 2MB address soace. Bigger problem is that there is no SW which can benefit of that RAM size... Mint is not really for 68000 CPU, which lacks (paged) MMU.
But 16MHz speed-up seems as good idea...

ppera

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby ppera » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:50 pm

bullis1 wrote:Looks like it will be a very nice piece of hardware. Good job (if it works).


If will not work at first attempt, we usually take deep breath, think some hours, days, months and then making another attempt and so on :mrgreen: And finally it works ! :D

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:56 pm

OK "revisions" added :-)

exxos-ide-4.png


Now I just need info about clocking CPU/RAM 8O
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
stimpy
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:47 pm
Location: Somerset, UK
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby stimpy » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:18 am

To get 16MB (well really 14MB) I seem to remember you have to wait a little time after TOS has started up (a reset etc) otherwise it will try placing the screen buffer in the RAM, which the shifter won't have access to. You'll need a CPLD to do the RAM controller, I think Xilinx still make 5v CPLDs.
Netus-Bee,Repairs,Upgrades,EtherNEC,Eiffel

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:37 am

4MB is the max this board will use in this revision. IDE is included.

I may produce a IDE only board, but it depends on how many people want them. There will be 8 PCB's produced of the above design. I will have to keep 2 back which leaves 6 boards. PCB alone will cost £17 each at cost.

alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby alanh » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:56 pm

That's a pity. 16Mb would have been nice.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby exxos » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:03 pm

alanh wrote:That's a pity. 16Mb would have been nice.


If there is interest then it could be fixed at a latter time, but there isn't much interest in the 4MB board with IDE, its looking doubtfull the project will go ahead as it is :(

User avatar
karlm
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:09 am
Location: Top of the World - Australia

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby karlm » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:04 am

Chris - I found some stuff on the 16mhz speedup card which has some gals etc for cache and the like if you want it. Also, my memory is hazy, but wouldn't you need to extend/replace the mmu to address the 14mb? I remember something like an extra ram card which involved the replacement of the mmu and using some kludge like a second mmu tacked on to decode everything ...

Cheers

karlm.

alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: STFM internal IDE ?

Postby alanh » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:41 am

Chris,

You might want to try casting the net a bit further.

Post to comp.sys.atari.st as well, and possibly a few other lists to make it known what you're doing. I'm sure there'd be a few buyers.

If it was 16Mb I'd take one, or possibly two depending on final price.

Alan.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.


Social Media

     

Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests