External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Everything related to using the HxC Floppy Emulator hardware on your Atari.

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troed
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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby troed » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:57 am

I've now begun actually modifying my STE and am about to make the A<->B switch. I'll go for the non-leg cutting/bending method on the wiki since my sound chip isn't socketed.

However, having studied the schematics I'm confused as to the comments on DS0/DS1 being available on the external connector. As far as I can see it's an easy modification to make it so - but it's not the case by default. I'm probably in the wrong though - I'm a software guy pretending to understand micro electronics, but I'd like to know what I'm missing.

Look at the attached schematics. If W300 had been linked 1-2 DS1 would indeed be available on the external pin 6 - but I can't see how it is now (and the schematics match my STE).

(DS0 is always available on the internal pin 10. DS1 is always available on the internal pin 12. DS1 is available on the external pin 5 since W301 is linked 2-3. If it had been linked 1-2 instead DS0 would be available on pin 5. Modifying both W301 and W300 would thus make the external port include DS0 and DS1 just as on the internal port)

[img]ste_ds0_ds1.png[/img]
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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby Jeff_HxC2001 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:28 pm

W300: Disable or enable the DS1 output on the second external drive select output. (Default : disable).
W301: Select DS0 or DS1 as output on the first external drive select output. (Default : DS1)

These straps are there to put all drives outside of the ST (as the 260ST...)

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby troed » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:05 pm

Jeff_HxC2001 wrote:W300: Disable or enable the DS1 output on the second external drive select output. (Default : disable).
W301: Select DS0 or DS1 as output on the first external drive select output. (Default : DS1)

These straps are there to put all drives outside of the ST (as the 260ST...)


Thanks Jeff :) Then I'll continue to trust my schematics-reading skills (as I see Dal also did earlier in the thread). The pinout at http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/int ... _Connector is thus valid for 260/520ST, only, but not STF or STE models (by default).

Question: Is it possible to connect both the internal floppy as well as an HxC to the internal cable - since it has both DS-signals available and Motor isn't needed for the HxC? A non-twisted flat cable with dual connectors seem reasonable to use if the HxC is configured as drive B. Although all suggestions I've seen have so far mention creating a new cable connecting to the external port I haven't understood why, yet.

edit: Of course, with the intention of adding a switch that simply swaps DS0/DS1 at pin 10/12 then.

/Troed

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby Jeff_HxC2001 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:29 pm

troed wrote:
Jeff_HxC2001 wrote:W300: Disable or enable the DS1 output on the second external drive select output. (Default : disable).
W301: Select DS0 or DS1 as output on the first external drive select output. (Default : DS1)

These straps are there to put all drives outside of the ST (as the 260ST...)


Thanks Jeff :) Then I'll continue to trust my schematics-reading skills (as I see Dal also did earlier in the thread). The pinout at http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/int ... _Connector is thus valid for 260/520ST, only, but not STF or STE models (by default).


Yes. To keep some kind of compatibility with the old external drive with the new STF,STE machines, the external DS0 line was connected to the internal DS1 line to avoid conflit with the internal drive (on DS0). That's the purpose of W300 & W301 :)

troed wrote:Question: Is it possible to connect both the internal floppy as well as an HxC to the internal cable - since it has both DS-signals available and Motor isn't needed for the HxC? A non-twisted flat cable with dual connectors seem reasonable to use if the HxC is configured as drive B. Although all suggestions I've seen have so far mention creating a new cable connecting to the external port I haven't understood why, yet.


I see no problem at all to do this. i have done this myself several times.

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby troed » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:18 pm

Jeff_HxC2001 wrote:
troed wrote:Question: Is it possible to connect both the internal floppy as well as an HxC to the internal cable - since it has both DS-signals available and Motor isn't needed for the HxC? A non-twisted flat cable with dual connectors seem reasonable to use if the HxC is configured as drive B. Although all suggestions I've seen have so far mention creating a new cable connecting to the external port I haven't understood why, yet.


I see no problem at all to do this. i have done this myself several times.


Thanks - it's definitely my preferred method of installing the HxC keeping the original disk drive then. However, I'm failing, and I don't understand why. As described above all that's needed is a straight 34 pin cable with two connectors - and I've just built two of them from regular "PC" floppy cables. One by cutting and re-attaching the second IDC connector (image included) and another by keeping all the existing connectors - just un-twisting the twist at one of them.

However - no matter what I do (and I've tested attaching just the HxC, or the original drive) as soon as I add my new cables the floppy/HxC is not recognized. When trying to boot off the HxC the STE actually displays four bombs after the memory test.

My only hypothesis at the moment is that the use of a gender changer to add the new cable causes too much resistance for the STE to drive the signals - but as I wrote above; I'm a software guy pretending to understand electronics ;) All pins measured and re-measured, all connect, no cross-talk. I don't test with the cable connected upside-down either :)

Any thoughts? Image of cable with gender changer attached.

DSC_0514.JPG


/Troed
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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby Hippy Dave » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 pm

The cable may be too long.
Use as few cables and devices as possible.
Try to put the gender changer as close as possible to one end of the cable.

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby troed » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:05 pm

troed wrote:Thanks - it's definitely my preferred method of installing the HxC keeping the original disk drive then. However, I'm failing, and I don't understand why.

...

Any thoughts? Image of cable with gender changer attached.


This has now been solved. It took me far too long to figure out that just using a male-male gender changer between two floppy cables would invert the rows. I documented the one-wire fix you can make to the extender-cable in a thread here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=19006#p256502

I now have both the internal drive (A:) and HxC (B:*) hooked up in my STE. Works a treat.

/Troed

*) Although the jumper setting I thought I should use on the HxC, ID1/Drive B wasn't correct - jumpering as ID1/Drive A works though, as B:. The cable is not twisted.

hxc_jumper.jpg
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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby DrCoolZic » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:04 pm

troed wrote:The pinout at http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/int ... _Connector is thus valid for 260/520ST, only, but not STF or STE models (by default).
/Troed


I will post more info on this thread ...
But before I forget I have updated my documentation at http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/int ... _Connector
It should now correctly describe the drive selction based on Atari model and straps setting.

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby DrCoolZic » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:27 am

Dal wrote:1. Pin 8 from the Atari's 14Pin External FDD connector is motor On. is is correct that I will need to wire a switch at my HxC in order to flick this signal between Pin 10 (MOTEA) for Drive 0 and Pin 16 (MOTEB) for Drive 1?


You have to be careful. Atari uses the original Shugart pinout and not the PC pinout.
Therefore there is no MOTEA MOTEB signals on Atari
please refer to http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml
for more information

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby DrCoolZic » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:35 am

Question for Jeff
Just lazy looking at documentation ;)
I have Hxc Floopy Emulator Rev C (USB type).
Is it possible to select by software
- enable / disable HxC (i.e. if disabled HxC has its output always TS)
- select if HxC respond to D0 or D1

(Just to compare with CosmosEx see below)

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby DrCoolZic » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:46 pm

Hello I am reviving this thread because I am trying to connect a CosmosEx floppy emulator to Atari ST.
This is very similar to connecting HxC floppy emulator.

Here is the wanted configuration: I want to have the CosmosEx device inside the Atari as a replacement for the internal floppy drive as this allows also an easy connection to the KB injector.
With this configuration I would like to be able to still use an external real floppy drive.

Of course the solution described in this thread for the HxC (with switch to toggle drive A or B) can be used.
However as the CosmosEx device offers the capability (by software) to be disabled or when enabled to be seen as drive 0 or 1 there might be a simpler solution.

We first sets the internal straps so that DS0 and DS1 are routed to pin 5 and 6 of the DB14 connector.
Now if we need CosmosEx as drive A it must be enabled and set to 0 and we can connect at the same time the external drive as drive B using the DS1 select.
If we need to have the external floppy drive as drive A and CosmosEx as drive B then we enable the CosmosEx and set it to 1 and the external floppy drive just need to use the DS0 signal.

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby DrCoolZic » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:38 pm

Dal wrote:I have completed the mod and tested it with my HxC floppy emulator - I can now toggle the HxC to behave as DS0 for loading games or flick the switch back for normal 'legacy' floppy use.
...
We now need a good line on the board for DS0 and DS1. These can be found at W301 (DS0) and W300 (DS1) handily located near the sound chip. Flip the board over and remove the solder from pin 1 at each of these points using a vacuum pump:

This mod works perfect to inverse the DS0 1 DS1 line.
So internal drive DS0 1 DS1 line get inverted but on the DIN14 only pin 5 get inverted (DS0 or DS1) pin 6 stay stuck to logic 1 (deselected).
If you want also to provide switching of DS0 and DS1 between pin 5 and 6 you will have to cut the trace between W300 2-3 and place a wire between 1-2

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby Jeff_HxC2001 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:46 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:Question for Jeff
Just lazy looking at documentation ;)
I have Hxc Floopy Emulator Rev C (USB type).
Is it possible to select by software
- enable / disable HxC (i.e. if disabled HxC has its output always TS)


Yes sure !

DrCoolZic wrote:- select if HxC respond to D0 or D1


Sure again.

(see app picture)

Image1.png
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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby DrCoolZic » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:07 am

Thanks for the information. I must admit that I have not used my HxC for quite some times :(

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby troed » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:32 am

troed wrote:I've now begun actually modifying my STE and am about to make the A<->B switch. I'll go for the non-leg cutting/bending method on the wiki since my sound chip isn't socketed.


Now done. The described no-pin-cutting method doesn't swap the signals on the internal cable so I had to make a few modifications to it: http://blog.troed.se/2014/10/21/atari-s ... nd-b-swap/

/Troed

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby metalages » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:19 pm

HXC in external drive box + drive selector.
Excellent idea :)

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby qq1975b » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:05 am

Nyh wrote:
blackpanther wrote:To be honest I don't understand that diagram. What do I need to make this work.

You need one double toggle switch (according to Wikipedia it is called a DPDT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch and it normally looks something like this):
Image
You have to cut pin 19 and 20 of the sound chip and solder a wire to it. Each wire goes to two contacts on the switch. One middle contact of the switch is connected to drive A select, the other to drive B select:
floppy switch.png
That is all.

Warning: doing it wrong may well kill your sound chip.

Hans Wessels


Can any DPDT switch be used? I mean there are on-off-on, on-on, 120V, 250V....

Like this one? http://es.farnell.com/multicomp/1md3t1b ... dp/9473530

thank you.
Trying to learn...

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby Dal » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:18 am

You need the on-on type really. on-off-on will work, but the middle position will be useless as neither drive would be selected.
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, STacy 2, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby mpattonm » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:37 am

Just in case anyoe is interested, this is how I installed A-B drive switch on STE:
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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby mpattonm » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:39 am

..part 2 of pics
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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby poiex » Sun May 21, 2017 6:41 pm

mpattonm wrote:Just in case anyoe is interested, this is how I installed A-B drive switch on STE:


Did you cut any tracks on the mobo or bent any sound chip legs?
I'm gonna do the same installation with my STE, just wasn't sure those black wires with connectors on them.
And where to cut tracks with STE if its needed?

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Re: External Disk Drive As Main Drive?

Postby mpattonm » Mon May 22, 2017 5:42 am

I have chosen "track cut" method. Instructions are on the first page of this thread.


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