68080 Apollo Core

Discuss CT60/CT63, CTPCI, SuperVidel and EtherNAT hardware here.

Moderators: Mug UK, moondog/.tSCc., [ProToS], lp, Moderator Team

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby mfro » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:04 am

wongck wrote:
mfro wrote:Basically, it is a (much - about 40x - faster) Falcon with a ColdFire instead of the 030 processor.


That may be an issue being so fast.... Will there be issues with the older software ?
Or after that we get into the same old argument.... need now software developers for new software?


Sure. This is what I already wrote elsewhere: any Atari clone will always (best case) be either fast or compatible. But not both (JE's constraint: at least not at the same time ;) ).

User avatar
MasterOfGizmo
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:15 pm
Contact:

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:01 am

What was interesting when working on Amiga cores compared to Atari ST cores is the fact that basically all Amiga software incl demos copes with the tg68k cpu core which is not cycle exact and doesn't even meet the overall speed exactly. The Atari ST software on the other hand frequently doesn't cope with this especially those demos doing hardware tricks like opening the borders.

So on the Atari ST compatibility vs. speed seems to be rather exclusive while on the Amiga you can get both to a certain extent.
MIST board, FPGA based Atari STE and more: https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12781
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby wongck » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:56 am

MasterOfGizmo wrote:So on the Atari ST compatibility vs. speed seems to be rather exclusive while on the Amiga you can get both to a certain extent.

Probably maybe because AMiGA have special sound and graphics chips that does not care about CPU speed ?
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

User avatar
MasterOfGizmo
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:15 pm
Contact:

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:40 am

wongck wrote:Probably maybe because AMiGA have special sound and graphics chips that does not care about CPU speed ?


That's one reason and the other one is that on the Amiga no such undocumented hardware tricks to open the borders were used/needed. Imho it doesn't matter why that is. But fact is that some of the best games and demos on the ST won't run on anything but a cycle exact hardware replica.
MIST board, FPGA based Atari STE and more: https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

User avatar
Cyprian
10 GOTO 10
10 GOTO 10
Posts: 1746
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:23 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby Cyprian » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:21 am

MasterOfGizmo wrote:That's one reason and the other one is that on the Amiga no such undocumented hardware tricks to open the borders were used/needed. Imho it doesn't matter why that is. But fact is that some of the best games and demos on the ST won't run on anything but a cycle exact hardware replica.

yep demos usually are cycled to the maximum and finally hardware dependant.

but games? which games do you mean?

I know only two tricks ST cycle dependent: opening border and color changes like spectrum512.
Playing samples on PSG or changing colors on HBL or TimerB isn't cycle sensitive and should work on any hardware compatible machine.
Lynx II / Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / Lynx Multi Card / LDW Super 2000 / XCA12 / SkunkBoard / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Steem SSE / Aranym / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

User avatar
Cyprian
10 GOTO 10
10 GOTO 10
Posts: 1746
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:23 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby Cyprian » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:00 am

mfro wrote:But then, we shouldn't be blind to see what it really is: an Amiga. I'm not (and never was) in the epic Atari vs Amiga wars, but people should realise that the Apollo/Vampire running TOS they see right now on YT and elsewhere is an (admitted, very fast) Amiga running EmuTOS for Amiga. A (very impressing) result that is only possible because of Vincent's efforts to make EmuTOS run on that hardware. It is however - contrary to what many people seem to (or wish to) believe - never going to be a (true) Atari clone. You could easily do the same with basically any Amiga HW (fast or slow, FPGA based or not) out there.


true, currently Vampire is no more than just an Amiga compatible machine which can run Atari OS. And at this stage it beyond of the scope of my interest.
But thanks to two factors it is a good role model:
- fully compatible CPU
- fully compatible hardware
Thanks to that ones can play in old good games from A500

mfro wrote:I don't see how these could be (legally) combined with the closed source Apollo core, however.

For two reasons: lack of FPGA development resources. License incompatibility.

and this is a sad reality
Lynx II / Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / Lynx Multi Card / LDW Super 2000 / XCA12 / SkunkBoard / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Steem SSE / Aranym / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

User avatar
MasterOfGizmo
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:15 pm
Contact:

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:09 am

Cyprian wrote:but games? which games do you mean?


There are a few games that open borders like e.g. obsession pinball. Imho also Lethal Xcess and/or Canon Fodder. Also all games/cracktros using spectrum 512 images need a cycle exact cpu to display properly.
MIST board, FPGA based Atari STE and more: https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

User avatar
Cyprian
10 GOTO 10
10 GOTO 10
Posts: 1746
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:23 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby Cyprian » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:13 am

MasterOfGizmo wrote:
Cyprian wrote:but games? which games do you mean?


There are a few games that open borders like e.g. obsession pinball. Imho also Lethal Xcess and/or Canon Fodder. Also all games/cracktros using spectrum 512 images need a cycle exact cpu to display properly.

good to know, thanks

there are a lot of great games without tricks like Lotus, Vroom, F1 GP, Lemmings ect.
They should be playable on any machine with good level of hardware support and CPU 68000 compatible (like 68080).


and the question worth 100 points to you.
How complicated would be porting ST core to the FireBee from the MIST?
Lynx II / Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / Lynx Multi Card / LDW Super 2000 / XCA12 / SkunkBoard / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Steem SSE / Aranym / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

User avatar
MasterOfGizmo
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:15 pm
Contact:

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:17 pm

Cyprian wrote:and the question worth 100 points to you.
How complicated would be porting ST core to the FireBee from the MIST?


I must admit i don't know very much about the firebee. But it seems it loads the FPGA config from flash. So you'd need to permanently flash the MIST core and would then be stuck with that until you flash back to firebee. But how would you ever return to the normal config if the firebee has been transformed into a MIST? How do you run the flash tools to return?

Short answer: If you want a MIST, then get one! It's really great and actually pretty cheap compared to all similar solutions. Even Gunnar from the apollo team has one and has even told me that he ported the 68080 to it. But they never released the resulting core which is understandable given the fact that they intend to make money with their own hardware.
MIST board, FPGA based Atari STE and more: https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

User avatar
Cyprian
10 GOTO 10
10 GOTO 10
Posts: 1746
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:23 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby Cyprian » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:25 pm

and what about porting Mist cores to FireBe but as 'addon'?
I mean, to allow to run cores in parallel with ColdFire processor, in GEM window.
Maybe would be worth to create kickstarter or a bounty project.
Lynx II / Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / Lynx Multi Card / LDW Super 2000 / XCA12 / SkunkBoard / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Steem SSE / Aranym / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby mfro » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:27 pm

Cyprian wrote:and what about porting Mist cores to FireBe but as 'addon'?
I mean, to allow to run cores in parallel with ColdFire processor, in GEM window.
Maybe would be worth to create kickstarter or a bounty project.


This would require partial reconfiguration (a feature that allows to replace only part of the FPGA configuration at runtime while leaving the remaining part alive and functioning). This would be required since there needs to be something that would cope with displaying the GEM window (and that is the Videl implemented in the FPGA configuration initially running).

This is - at least to my knowledge - only available on Cyclone V FPGAs, but definitely not on the Cyclone III. There is probably no incentive that would help changing that.

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby mfro » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:49 pm

MasterOfGizmo wrote:... But it seems it loads the FPGA config from flash ...


That is indeed the case. But it's the ColdFire µC (i.e. its firmware) that bit-bangs the FPGA configuration into the chip, so it is definitely doable to reconfigure the FPGA on the fly from the CPU with a config loaded from disk. Register contents are lost, obviously, so basically the only reasonable thing you can do from TOS is a reboot.

But I definitely agree: if you want a MiST, go out and buy one (I'm a happy owner myself).

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4420
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby joska » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:11 pm

mfro wrote:This would require partial reconfiguration (a feature that allows to replace only part of the FPGA configuration at runtime while leaving the remaining part alive and functioning).


Running games on the Firebee would be easier done by improving the accuracy of the existing "hardware" and emulate the CPU in software. I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to have a separate shifter framebuffer for this purpose, and use the existing blitter to blit the framebuffer to the desired location on the actual screen.

Demos is a completely different thing. As said above, this requires a very accurate simulation of the target machine, which none of the existing FPGA ST's does today.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4420
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby joska » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:21 pm

mfro wrote:any Atari clone will always (best case) be either fast or compatible


Clone of what? If you're talking about an ST clone - which is required if you want to run virtually any scene production and many games - then you are right. It must be a clone in every way. However, if a Falcon clone was made it can be made a lot faster than a real Falcon and still be highly compatible.

vido wrote:68080 it is not faster as Coldfire.

Cyprian wrote:ColdFire is dead end. Reasons are incompatibility with 68000 and very very slow Flex-Bus.


Again, this obsession with speed. I have a Firebee. The "very very slow Flex-Bus" (which btw is faster than absolutely anything "Atari" except the CT60) is *not* why I'm not using it. In fact, the very very slow Flex-Bus is more than fast enough to run the 20-30 year old software we're stuck with.

Compatibility and reliability is a lot more important than speed. If the Firebee actually was Falcon-compatible it could be half as fast as it is now and still be a great Falcon.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

vido
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 695
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby vido » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:02 pm

joska wrote:Running games on the Firebee would be easier done by improving the accuracy of the existing "hardware" and emulate the CPU in software. I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to have a separate shifter framebuffer for this purpose, and use the existing blitter to blit the framebuffer to the desired location on the actual screen.

Demos is a completely different thing. As said above, this requires a very accurate simulation of the target machine, which none of the existing FPGA ST's does today.

I believe to run ST games optimised Hatari which is already ported to the FireBee by Vincent would be fast enough to play some of them.
Also optimised 68k emulator also ported by Vincent would made some GEM software like Photoline usable also on the FireBee.
Separat shifter framebuffer would be of the great help to blit the framebuffer to the desired location on the actual screen for emulators and other new/ported software.

vido
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 695
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby vido » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:10 pm

joska wrote:Again, this obsession with speed. I have a Firebee. The "very very slow Flex-Bus" (which btw is faster than absolutely anything "Atari" except the CT60) is *not* why I'm not using it. In fact, the very very slow Flex-Bus is more than fast enough to run the 20-30 year old software we're stuck with.

Compatibility and reliability is a lot more important than speed. If the Firebee actually was Falcon-compatible it could be half as fast as it is now and still be a great Falcon.

I am not obsessed with the speed as software for the Atari is designed to be usable at the lower speeds any way. Well ... on the other hand porting like SDL software to be usable and emulation would gain a lot with the higher speed.
But in fact as you say FireBee as it is, it has a lot of potential to gain only with software and FPGA fixes/additions, that we dont have to bother with the hardware speed.

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby mfro » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:13 pm

joska wrote:... I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to have a separate shifter framebuffer for this purpose, and use the existing blitter to blit the framebuffer to the desired location on the actual screen...


I don't see the benefit with that when we already have nicely working native Falcon video modes (including the Falcon's ST compatibility modes) in hardware?

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4420
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby joska » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:04 pm

I was referring to the "in GEM window" statement. You would need a second framebuffer for this. Or a plain software emulator. But the Firebee is not fast enough to emulate a complete ST in pure software.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
MasterOfGizmo
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:15 pm
Contact:

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:17 am

Cyprian wrote:Maybe would be worth to create kickstarter or a bounty project.

Great idea! Just do it!
MIST board, FPGA based Atari STE and more: https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

PeterS
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:53 pm
Location: England, GB

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby PeterS » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:07 am

I was never interested in demos but they are intended to exploit every possible trick they can find in the hardware to "demonstrate" what can be done, so it is not surprise that any hardware change breaks them. For instance I suspect that an ST demo might not work on an STE.

If the app is reasonably "clean" then I would expect it to run. What matters to many people is how fast that webpage is displayed, can I play that media, how long will the compilation take, etc. ?

BlankVector
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:52 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby BlankVector » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:52 pm

PeterS wrote:For instance I suspect that an ST demo might not work on an STE.

STe compatibility is extremely high with ST software, including with demos.
Subscribe to my Vretrocomputing channel on YouTube and Facebook. Latest video: Save and restore the video mode in assembly language on Atari ST.

User avatar
1st1
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 850
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 11:48 am

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby 1st1 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:58 pm

Nice to see you finally here talk about Vampire. When I did that 3 years ago here, after Apollo team requested support from Atari community to get support to get that baby running in an ST, many here called me more or less an idiot.

So now here an idiots opinion and comments:

ST/STE demos rely often on undocumented tricks for digital sound on Yamaha, overscan, more than 16 colors, copper effectes and stuff like that. These tricks are very very timing dependend. That means, you need to do the right thing at the right moment, like switching 50/60/70Hz tricks for overscan. So that code is very hand optimized to switch registers at the right moment. 68000 CPU has instructions with different durations, one clock, two clocks, three clocks, etc. This behaviour is used to archive this exact timing, for example by filling time"gaps" with NOP instructions.

Apollo processor is superscalar, has two instuction pipelines, executes every clock one instruction (bam bam bam ...), or even two instructions per cycle, and the clock is more than 10 times faster than 68000 clock in ST/STE. That means, timing of above demo code can not be held, it's running too fast. Apollo has "snail mode" where it can be clocked downto 8 Mhz in many steps, but one instruction follows still another instruction one clock after the other clock. So timing of that kind of software can not be kept, even not in snail mode.

Amiga is more flat. Every effect you can see and hear on Amiga demo is officially supported by hardware. They don't need undocmented tricks, they just use the capabbilities of the chipset which are there to produce these fantastic effects, so even legacy code can benefit from faster CPU. Totally different from advanced ST/STE demo effects.

Having a 100 Mhz CPU with a 320x200 16 color screen is like a joke, isn't it? What would you do with it? Demos and games for ST/STE will have above timing problems, your enemies in a shooter game will be toooooo fast to hit them. Tooo fast, no fun. (try to play "Alley Cat" or "Xenon" MS-DOS game made for original IBM PC on a 486DX-4-100, it's the same, too fast, no fun). So ST video modes are not that important, just for initial boot.

So better forget for Apollo machine with ST/STE games and demos, that is bullshit idea.

Apollo makes only sense with applications/game working with a lot of data, timing independent, the faster it can handle the data, grahics, database, website, the better... So an vampirized ST or standalone needs high resolition graphics card. That is there, up to FullHD, called SAGA, and there is SAGA driver for EmuTOS / MiNT. So that's nice for Calamus, Netsurf, Troll, Photoline, ...

Above someone misses PMMU in Apollo core. They have something similar, even more powerfull in Apollo for virtual memory management and physical adress mapping compared to 68K PMMU. It even would be possible to support that adavnced MMU function into MiNT, there was discussion about that in Apollo-forum, vincent riviere, mfro and czietz talked about that with them. But Apollo team was not able to finalize the specification and documentation for that and so nobody does it. My personal experience with PMMU enabled on TT and ct60 is, that with that enabled, more software to crash than without. So PMMU support sounds a nice freature, but I idiot think, that many people will be unhappy enabling that memory protection feature in MiNT, when their favourite legacy GEM application then crashes.

With GEM we don't have problem to support high resolutions and many colors in any clean programmed application, just a VDI driver required, SAGA-VDI is there. Where we have problem, is with sound. Most applications which use sound, accesses directly Yamaha, STE-DMA-Sound, FSound. On Vampire standalone there is no Yamaha, STE-DMA-Sound, FSound. But there is "Paula" (the Amiga sound chip), they already implemented that in Apollo - with HDMI audio output, but no existing ATARI software can talk to and use Paula. Will you rewrite all software? Some software after 1992, after release of Falcon, can use XBIOS sound function from TOS 4.0x. But this is only a little number of software. And EmuTOS/MinT does not have an implementatuion of XBIOS sound, no function that can talk to Paula.

So Vampire Standalone with (Emu)TOS/MinT has no sound. It also has no Midi, so no use for Midi music software.

You miss DSP on Apollo desgn. I idiot think now, after discussion 3 years with them, with you all intelligent guys, that they never will implement 56k as they have AMMX. AMMX is based on Intel Pentium 166/200/233-MMX. AMMX multimedia SIMD instruction set is very sinuilar to MMX - I was told, I can pickup intel MMX assembler manual and learn AMMX programming with it. (SIMD == Singe Instruction, Multiple Data) With MMX code they can do finally the same powerfull things that DSP could do as well, so they don't see sense of implementing DSP. Also in PC, MMX, later 3DNow! and SSE were used for the things, what Falcon can do with DSP. They don't have the manpower to support two solutions which can be used for the same application things. (And the question is, if they have enough space in their FPGA to store the 56K logics functions besides all the other stuff)

Ok, we can have Vampire plugged into ST board, power up, and it boots. Would be nice, that was my dream 3 years ago. Making a 260ST into something which outperforms TT, Falcon, ct60, Hades, Milan, Eagle, Firebee. But those Apollo guys have initially designed the thing beeing still incompatoble to ST. There are several factors: Amiga does not use some signals on 68000 pinout, so they originally did not implemented. Amiga does not use Bus-Error and 2-3 other signal of the 68000 pinout for things getting done with the chipset. Atari uses Bus-Error signal like hardware detection, this is the way, how TOS detects memory size, availability of Blitter, ... Amiga also uses different interrupt handling. Only after I idiot, and after convincing them to try it - it took me more than a year - Tuxie, Gaga, Pakman and other Atari-intelligence talked to them, they tryed to implement or fix that, but until now they failed, it's not working properly. My impression is that they gave up, the mentioned Atari intelligence, and the Apollo gods. And I think, they (Apollo team) are afraid after implementing that ST/Mac compatible 68000 bus protocol Vampire might fail to start in Amiga... But that's their prority. Amiga. Amiga. Amiga. Sad, 3 years ago they were very motivated, very interested in ST. But our side took toooooo long to understand that they meant serious.

Now they go to finalize Vampire for trapdoor of Amiga 1200. When A1200 runs, they will prefer to have support for A3000, A4000, that's my impression. That's their prio, that are the machines they know. No ST, no STE, no TT, no Falcon support, until you collect some 3-5000 eurodollars and pay them - or we Atari idiots pay to licence the Apollo core and try to fix it. My impression is that they are just happy to run clean GEM applications with EmuTOS/MiNT, faster than any other ATARI(-Clone) ever did (even firebee struggels here, and Coldfire additionally struggles over some 68k instructions what makes it a bit incompatible...), finally having some professional applications which do not need sound, that's enough for them. Finally being able to run Calamus... No sound. No Midi. (ST demo/game is impossible, keep your grey computer for that!)

Good night, the idiot goes to sleep now. So late, already. So late for Vampire.

Ps: Just install Hatari, Aranym and UAE on a 8core Xenon/Core i7 and above and you're faster than any TOS/AmigaOS 68K machine and still compatible.
Power without the Price. It's not a bug. It's a feature. _/|\_ATARI

1040STFM in PC-Tower (PAK68/2, OvrScn, 4 MB, 1GB SCSI, CD-ROM...) * 2x Falcon 030 32GB/14MB+ScrnBlstrIII * 2x TT030 73GB/20MB+Nova * 520/1040STFM * 520/1040STE * 260/520ST/+ * some Mega ST * 2x Mega STE 500MB/4MB+M.CoCo * Stacy * STBook * SLM605 * SLM804 * SLM605 * SMM804 * SH 204/205 * Megafile 30/44/60 * SF314 * SF354 * 5x Pofo * PC3

User avatar
Cyprian
10 GOTO 10
10 GOTO 10
Posts: 1746
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:23 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby Cyprian » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:34 pm

1st1 wrote:Nice to see you finally here talk about Vampire. When I did that 3 years ago here, after Apollo team requested support from Atari community to get support to get that baby running in an ST, many here called me more or less an idiot.


oh gosh, you are back again....

It seems you are not aware. There is still no ST compatible Vampire, therefore nothing has changed since then.

As a person who is waiting for Vampire for ST since 2013! I have tell you are doing very bad job, here and on apollo-core forum.
Lynx II / Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / Lynx Multi Card / LDW Super 2000 / XCA12 / SkunkBoard / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Steem SSE / Aranym / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12781
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby wongck » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:45 pm

1st1 wrote:So late, already. So late for Vampire.


Vampires likes late and hates early when the sun comes up, so may be that's the issue here.

On the hardware stuff.... well the true realities of life, it's all about the Ben.
They are after all an Amiga house, if the money is good on the Atari front it may be different. Well may be after they done that A1000+ stuff....
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

User avatar
alexh
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2756
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:52 pm
Location: UK - Oxford
Contact:

Re: 68080 Apollo Core

Postby alexh » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:57 am

FX68k is open source. It should be possible to put both cores into the same FPGA using the halt pin to select?

I know that FX68k is not quite a 100% a physical replacement for 8MHz 68k but with a little bit of work


Social Media

     

Return to “CT60 / CT63 Area”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests