What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

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What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby Kroll » Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:59 pm

Hi,

I wolud like ask about the best snapshot. I wolud like use with this configuration
Atari Falcon 060/CTPCI/Radeon, system is MiNT + Xaaes + Thing (Teradesk) with 32 bits graphics (!!).

I thought the best will be xaesnap.prg, I run it at system startup (in the xaaes.cnf file), After pressing the ctrl + alt + D key combination appears window with Block, Full screen, Top window, Cancel, and create file on u: \ram snap_000.tga, but how do I open it in Zview, this picture is all black. does not support 32 bit graphics ?

So I have a question if some other snapshot is working because you can set the path to an external snapshot or use it as an accessory

What do you recommend?

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby calimero » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:23 pm

If I remember correctly, JML Snap works fine with supervidel: http://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/?f ... L_SNAP.FTP
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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby Kroll » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:54 pm

Unfortunately, I checked both Falcon and graphics card, as well as firebee, just after selecting the fragments from which to do the screenshots appears information "unknown hardware graphic".

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby Faucon2001 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:12 pm

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby Kroll » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:49 pm

Yes you are right fvdisnap works on Falcon with Radeon (on firebee too), but it is runs only as accessory, and I am still looking for snapshot work as external program like xaaesnap.prg

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby frank.lukas » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:00 pm

Helmut the XaAES developer has a XaAES Snapshot GIF tool that works great ...
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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby Kroll » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:23 pm

Thanks, but Do you know where can I find on internet or could you give me a contact to him?

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby frank.lukas » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:40 pm

Try the User "helmut" ...
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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby helmut » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:10 am

I've uploaded it here:

http://hek.bplaced.net/atari/snapshot.gz

It has issues with fVDI in 8-bit: all colours > 16 are black, and with the Matrix-card: some colours are just wrong. I don't do anything on it currently. In xaaes.cnf say: snapshot=<full path>\snapshot. Should work like xaaesnap, output goes to the clipboard.

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby Kroll » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:00 am

Hi, thank you I have just test it, however, I have my comments
I tested Atari Falcon + CTPCI + Radeon 32 bit graphics with NVDI, behaving like xaaesnap.prg. When I press the CTRL+ALT+D key, the window will pop up. Yes it is working, when you save the mouse cursor disappears and you have to wait for it to appear (also toggled sound) depending on the size of the block or Full screen a little it takes

Also, you are right that some colors are wrong :(

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby helmut » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:27 pm

The gif-file has at most an 8-bit depth, and therefore the program must find a palette containing the most common colours if the source has a higher depth. Then it tries to map the other colours to the nearest ones in the palette. This might not be 100% perfect, and if you snap a natural image you may observe strange things. Good enough for documentation though ;) Also this process might need some time, but on aranym it's still fast enough. Of course a 32-bit output-format would be more suitable in your case.
The mouse is off to not have it in the snapshot, sound I don't know.

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby Kroll » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:12 pm

Thank you very much, You are absolutely right, so I will have to use snapshots as an accessory and the best one will be fvdisnap or jpegsnap.

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby wongck » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:43 pm

helmut wrote: Then it tries to map the other colours to the nearest ones in the palette. This might not be 100% perfect


How does it know the nearest colours ?
Isn't it a LUT ?
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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby helmut » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:21 pm

I adds the absolute differences of r,g,b, and looks for the one in the palette with the smallest difference. Surely not the best solution. LUT is the palette, isn't it?

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby wongck » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:02 pm

helmut wrote:I adds the absolute differences of r,g,b, and looks for the one in the palette with the smallest difference. Surely not the best solution. LUT is the palette, isn't it?

Wow... neat, I never figure out how to approximate match a colour.
IDK i thought the 256 colours were based on LUT.
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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby OL » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:28 pm

Kroll wrote:Thank you very much, You are absolutely right, so I will have to use snapshots as an accessory and the best one will be fvdisnap or jpegsnap.


With MyAES CTRL + alt + D create on the version you have scrap.tga a true color TGA uncompressed, in any resolution (even in Black and White)
OL

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby helmut » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:12 pm

wongck wrote:
helmut wrote:I adds the absolute differences of r,g,b, and looks for the one in the palette with the smallest difference. Surely not the best solution. LUT is the palette, isn't it?

Wow... neat, I never figure out how to approximate match a colour.
IDK i thought the 256 colours were based on LUT.


Guess the "direction" needs to be taken into account, not only the delta: You can't map for example (0,0,3) to (0,3,0).

graftool shows that it's possible without any blurs: Run in 8-bit and load a 24-bit image, it has to do the same job as my snapshot-program.

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby Kroll » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:21 pm

OL wrote:With MyAES CTRL + alt + D create on the version you have scrap.tga a true color TGA uncompressed, in any resolution (even in Black and White)


Wow, I did not know that in MyAES, this also works with key kombination CTRL + ALT + D, I did not find anything in the file myaes.cnf, which uses its own snapshot ?
Works great, super :)

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby wongck » Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:36 am

helmut wrote:Guess the "direction" needs to be taken into account, not only the delta: You can't map for example (0,0,3) to (0,3,0).

graftool shows that it's possible without any blurs: Run in 8-bit and load a 24-bit image, it has to do the same job as my snapshot-program.


Great stuff.
When to google a bit, just out of interest , not that I am doing any graphics stuff. Seems there are quite a lot of information on how to do this. But I am sure there already some implementation in Z-tools. Lonny mentioned that every graphics inside the Zorro's Codec are in 24 bits, and so Zorro must have an algo to make it to 8 bits etc for the Atari.
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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby OL » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:02 am

Kroll wrote:
OL wrote:With MyAES CTRL + alt + D create on the version you have scrap.tga a true color TGA uncompressed, in any resolution (even in Black and White)


Wow, I did not know that in MyAES, this also works with key kombination CTRL + ALT + D, I did not find anything in the file myaes.cnf, which uses its own snapshot ?
Works great, super :)



Yes this fuly internal, MyAES is based on screen.ldg (to reduce space and speed up I include it in MyAES on the last version) that is able to transform 24bits RGB to any screen video format and from any video format to 24 bits (the first affirmation is true for more than 15 years but the second as it was not tested not work in all case, I have fix a lot of format on your last version with Guillaume Tello and his exotic video card!). TGA save is too a function of screen.ldg, so do a snapshot is quite very easy to only some lines!

I'm very confident with this feature, if you add shift key, the mouse is removed for screenshot

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby ThorstenOtto » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:50 am

I've just written some similar tool, available at http://tho-otto.de/sharedlibs.php, maybe someone wants to try it.

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby Kroll » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:22 pm

Wow,
thank you very much it is very interesting, I can test it on my Atari Falcon with/without Radeon card. On the beginning (test did with video card) I have noticed:
I did the test for TOS and MiNT with XAAES and jinnee as a desktop.
Under TOS I ran it as accesories (acc from 000 folder) When I set output as TGA 16 or TGA 24 (whole screen), all is OK
Under MiNT I run it also as a prg file (020 folder), but window application is still active (look at photo).
The second issue when I set the PNG as output, this snaphot when I open it in Zview browser show is 8 bit graphics (256 colors) and the pallet of color is bad.

snap002.png

In this mode (Radeon card with 32 bit graphics) ouput IMG and GIF file is not active, Is it normall?
Next test wihout video card I will do in the evening

One additional comments, problem with active window applications is only seen when window (terminal - conholio application is active on the screen), when is minimized this window it OK :)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby ThorstenOtto » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:19 pm

Thanx for testing.

Kroll wrote:Under MiNT I run it also as a prg file (020 folder), but window application is still active (look at photo).


It is actually expected that the current window remains on top, the dialog is a modal one. So in the your screenshot, this works as expected, There seems to be however a problem when you run it as acessory under XaAES, then the top window becomes inactive even if the ACC does not open any window. When run as PRG, that does not happen. Seems to be a quirk of XaAES, any idea how to prevent that?

The second issue when I set the PNG as output, this snaphot when I open it in Zview browser show is 8 bit graphics (256 colors) and the pallet of color is bad.
.

Oops. Have to look at that. I assume the 8bit format of the radeon is chunky (pixel-packed), and not plane-oriented as standard ST screen formats?

In this mode (Radeon card with 32 bit graphics) ouput IMG and GIF file is not active, Is it normall?


Yes, this is normal. IMG and GIF cannot write hicolor/truecolor.

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby Kroll » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:15 am

Thank you for the detailed explanation,
I need more time to test it on my other computers, I think about Atari TT and Hades.
But I have two comments:
There is the "Output Truecolors" option, I can not see any difference when it comes to export, what is it for?
The PNG file, regardless of the graphics card in Atari TT and Hades, I have ATI MACH64, is always the graphics is 8-bit (256 colors).

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Re: What is the best Snapshot for Radeon card

Postby ThorstenOtto » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:40 am

Kroll wrote:There is the "Output Truecolors" option, I can not see any difference when it comes to export, what is it for?[/true]

It changes the way pixels are fetched. The TGA module can only output truecolor anyway, but without this option, when the screen memory is fetched, it used vor_cpyfm, calculates the pixels, converts it to RGB and then passes writes it out as TGA. With the option enabled, it uses v_get_pixel() just like in chunky mode, which is notably slower, but should always work regardless of graphic format.

It should also make a difference in PNG output, which would otherwise create a paletted file in 256 color modes (or less).

The PNG file, regardless of the graphics card in Atari TT and Hades, I have ATI MACH64, is always the graphics is 8-bit (256 colors).[/quote]

Possible, should be fixed in the next version. Actually that option is not much useful, unless you have some graphics program that can't read paletted images. But i'm still trying to reproduce the wrong colors.


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