SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

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SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby mzry » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:14 am

Just wondering if anyone else experienced SCSI issues. My zip drive just locks up during data transfer since my ct60e was installed. The drive still works perfectly on other machines though. My Falcon has exxos clock patch installed also so I don't know why this happens.

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby mikro » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:33 am

mzry wrote:My Falcon has exxos clock patch installed also so I don't know why this happens.

I'd be careful with Exxos clock patch -- it's the simplest one available (+buffer resistors), in the past these worked (and even that not always) on unaccelerated Falcons only. For instance, it doesn't implement the SDMA fix at all, what may be important for SCSI transfers.

When you say other machines, do you mean with a CT60 (or even the same CT60e unit) ?

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby mzry » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:42 am

Not on another Falcon. But the Exxos clock patch is very good and extensively tested. I doubt it would cause me issues.

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby Faucon2001 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:07 pm

mzry wrote:Just wondering if anyone else experienced SCSI issues. My zip drive just locks up during data transfer since my ct60e was installed. The drive still works perfectly on other machines though. My Falcon has exxos clock patch installed also so I don't know why this happens.

I also have problems with SCSI data transfer with my Falcon after CT60e installation.
I have started discussing in this thread : viewtopic.php?f=97&t=31313
But I believe that your thread is more adequate as in the end my issue is not specific to Magic 6.2

To summarize :
-Hardware : Falcon + 14 Mb + 4 GB IDE disk on module + new NVRAM + SCSI Aztec Monster CF disk + CT60e 512 MB + 68060 rev6 @90 MHZ, No clock patch installed, No modification of the mother board. SCSI CF disk is properly terminated.
-Software : HD Driver 10.3, TOS (CT60 1.03), Mint 1.19, Magic 6.2 (patched CT60), Videl Inside 2.03, NVDI 5.03, COPS 1.08, CT60 cpx, Thing 1.27
-Issue : SCSI transfers from SCSI to IDE, and from IDE to SCSI lock during data transfer in CT60 mode.
-Observations :
*In 030 mode, everything works perfect whatever configuration I use. I have never noticed any SDMA issue in this mode (Cubase audio works perfectly without crackle both in recording and reading)
*In CT60 mode, Magic 6.2 crashes in every case when I try to transfer a file bigger than a few KB (1 or 2 KB is ok, but 200KB crashs the system). SCSI data transfer will work ok under TOS and Mint in Videl resolution up to 800x592x4b, but SCSI will lock for big files in 800x592x8b with a write error message ; the system won't crash but the SCSI CF won't be accessible before a reboot and could get corrupted. If I don't use Videl Enhanced résolution, SCSI data transfer works good in 640x480x256c.
In whatever resolution, I have not noticed any sound crackle with MxPlay for example.
I had done the SDMA test from Rodolphe and SDMA2DSP from Atari : both don't show any issue.
I have tested HD Driver in fast ram and st ram : same issue.
I have tested with and without 060 cache : same issue
So this transfer problem seems to appear only under heavy Bus and Videl load.

I was going to install Exxos patch today, but after reading your post I am wondering if the issue is elsewhere. There is also Rodolphe's resistor patch as another option, but I don't want to butcher my Falcon if it's not helping.

Can you describe your issue with more precision?
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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby mzry » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:18 pm

Okay, more precision: Running Vanillamint 1.19, latest Teradesk, exxos clock patch, fully recapped motherboard, Hd driver 10.0.3, new NVram, 14mb STRAM 256mb TTRAM, 68060 rev6 @ 98Mhz - When transferring files from my SCSI external zip drive the transfer process 'locks up' the orange light on the zip drive constantly stays on and the entire process just locks up. When viewing the disk on a windows machine I can see corrupted files, odd names etc and Windows senses the corruption and tries to fix it.

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby mzry » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:20 pm

Just to add: The exxos clock patch fixed a LOT of issues for me, I used to get crashes in DSP heavy programs and pops / clicks in music playback - all of which dissapeared once I installed the clock patch. I have not run any SDMA tests as you mentioned, if you let me know where to find the programs I can test.

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby Faucon2001 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:38 pm

If you have solved your SDMA DSP issue with Exxos clock patch, I guess that these tests won't tell you more as they seem to be focused on sound pops and clock SDMA problem, but didn't give me a clue on SCSI transfer. Anyway, it cost nothing to do it.
Switch to a TC resolution to do these tests.
The SDMA test is here : https://mikrosk.github.io/ct60tos/ct60/sdmatest.prg
No crackle is ok
SDMA2DSP test is here : https://mikrosk.github.io/clockpatch/f030test.zip
Green bar is ok

Similar issue indeed. Do you have the same issue for every video bit depth or only in 256 colors?
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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby mzry » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:45 pm

I honestly have not tested in different colour depths, only 256. To be honest if it doesn't work at 256 then I'm not interested in different colour depths ;/

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby Faucon2001 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:04 pm

Obviously, that's what I am looking for to ! Limiting the scope of a problem is the best way to solve it.
Can you please do a test in 2 and 16 colors? It may help to understand if your problem is the same as mine and therefore find a common solution.
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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby wongck » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:07 pm

Was discussed way back in 2009, so it's nothing new.
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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby mzry » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:38 pm

wongck wrote:Was discussed way back in 2009, so it's nothing new.


Do you remember the outcome of that discussion?

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby wongck » Mon May 01, 2017 12:12 am

Well. the URl I linked mentioned that the bus cannot take it.
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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby mzry » Mon May 01, 2017 12:09 pm

Faucon2001 wrote:Obviously, that's what I am looking for to ! Limiting the scope of a problem is the best way to solve it.
Can you please do a test in 2 and 16 colors? It may help to understand if your problem is the same as mine and therefore find a common solution.


Okay I will do some tests in a few days and let you know.

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby Faucon2001 » Mon May 01, 2017 11:37 pm

I did some further tests, even in 640x480x256 colors (I.e without any Videl enhancer) under TOS in CT60 mode I have bad SCSI transfers.
It's less obvious as the file get copied without any error message, but doing it with a zipped file and checking after the zip integrity gives a bad CRC for the copied file, for SCSI-> SCSI, IDE->SCSI and SCSI->IDE.
Uwe conclusion is that it has nothing to do with HD Driver 10.3 and that's the well know SDMA issue.
I will buy the resistor to do Rodolphe SDMA patch first as it is less intrusive and see if it helps, but for now no SCSI for 256 colors mode. I have to stick to 16 colors :-(
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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby mikro » Tue May 02, 2017 2:35 am

Faucon2001 wrote:I will buy the resistor to do Rodolphe SDMA patch first as it is less intrusive and see if it helps

I'm super curious about the outcome. I can't remember anyone with SCSI / sound problems actually doing only this mod. For me, the basic 74F04 version did the trick (as it has been there when I bought the Falcon).

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby paul92706 » Tue May 02, 2017 4:20 am

I actually had problems with my SCSI a while back due to bad clock patch, i would revise that patch if it's installed correctly, i suspect that's your problem!
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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby Rustynutt » Tue May 02, 2017 12:44 pm

Having issues with an Accent CF SCSI card reader too. What I thought might be a problem with a MiNT installation, likely is the result of corruped data being passed from sharing the card with a PC.

The hard disk I'm using were set up a long time ago, and didn't pay attention to partition size, which was far too big for running under TOS 4.04.
The CF cards, 8GB, had 2GB partitions each. Using HD Driver 8.43.

Spent the better part of two days working this out. The Falcon I'm using has the older buffer. It seems stable enough under TOS, and CT60 (e as well), so don't think it the bird itself. Pretty much my inattentive approach to using improperly set up media.

Was having fits installing Vinally MiNT, moved to another Falcon without issue. The problematic set up is a really nice set up with all the correct mods. Was after I started swapping out CF cards shared with Windows that the problem arose.

Worth spending some more time on.

Least that's my idea anyway :)

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby Faucon2001 » Tue May 02, 2017 7:05 pm

paul92706 wrote:I actually had problems with my SCSI a while back due to bad clock patch, i would revise that patch if it's installed correctly, i suspect that's your problem!

Paul, so with the SDMA patch solved your SCSI issue?
I am not talking about sound crackles, I don't have any, but only SCSi corruption in high Rez/ color depth.
Can you copy files from and to SCSI in CT60 mode in 256c and high resolutions?
Which patch have you applied?
All the information I have read so far is very confusing: everybody tells a different story but nobody is able to answer this simple question.
Thanks for your support.
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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby mzry » Tue May 02, 2017 7:48 pm

Well Philippe, if you look at most of the facts the only real option for you is to install a clock patch. You don't have one and it is the most important and common mod for a Falcon. But as you can see, there are people with a clock patch who still experience this trouble, and in that case people are just saying the Falcon bus cannot take it. Either way you only have one option to try, and that is the clock patch. That is my logical assesment :)

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby Ektus » Tue May 02, 2017 8:01 pm

I can't answer your question because currently I don't have a working configuration with 256 colours on the Videl. I did test with TREE_CHK.PRG from the Kobold package, comparing a 200MB folder with lots of big files (EasyMiNT install folder) on the main IDE hard disk and on a SCSI card reader. There were no errors, so SCSI is working in this configuration. Video comes from the Radeon, though, so the Videl is almost idle (640x480x2 VGA boot image).

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby paul92706 » Wed May 03, 2017 4:28 am

Faucon2001 wrote:
paul92706 wrote:I actually had problems with my SCSI a while back due to bad clock patch, i would revise that patch if it's installed correctly, i suspect that's your problem!

Paul, so with the SDMA patch solved your SCSI issue?
I am not talking about sound crackles, I don't have any, but only SCSi corruption in high Rez/ color depth.
Can you copy files from and to SCSI in CT60 mode in 256c and high resolutions?
Which patch have you applied?
All the information I have read so far is very confusing: everybody tells a different story but nobody is able to answer this simple question.
Thanks for your support.

Hi Philippe yes the SDMA patch solved my problem, i used Simbo's updated patch he posted somewhere on here, got to look for it. And yes i could transfer files via SCSI to and from in CT60 mode in 256 and True color without problems. At the time Exxos did not have a Clock Patch available so i used Simbo's, but i understand Exxos has a plug in play type patch you may want to look into.
Last edited by paul92706 on Wed May 03, 2017 4:38 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby paul92706 » Wed May 03, 2017 4:28 am

Please Delete
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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby Faucon2001 » Thu May 04, 2017 12:31 am

Thank you very much Paul, that's the information that I was looking for :-)
I can now warm up my iron.
I'll let you know the result.
Philippe

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby Rustynutt » Thu May 04, 2017 2:21 am

KOBOLD will pretty much tell you right away if it finds errors while verifying. Correct will give you more detail. Tree check will check equal and existence between drives/partitions.

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Re: SCSI ZIP after ct60e not working

Postby paul92706 » Thu May 04, 2017 3:58 am

Faucon2001 wrote:Thank you very much Paul, that's the information that I was looking for :-)
I can now warm up my iron.
I'll let you know the result.

Goodluck buddy!, you got this :cheers:
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