A good & working net browser?

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mzry
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A good & working net browser?

Postby mzry » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:22 am

Hi all,

Highwire is working perfectly on my system (Latest Vanillamint 1.19) but I cannot get Netsurf to run reliably, it keeps crashing with get_wind AES call errors. I've tried both MyAES and XaAes without any luck. Highwire is too old and incompatible with modern website standards, does anyone have a good build of Netsurf maybe especially compiled for 060 I could have? I've even tried the nightly builds, they don't even open.

Thx

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby jury » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:27 am

If I remember correctly, netsurt needs 16-bit color mode so do you have Radeon, Super Videl or so?

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby mzry » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:28 am

No just videl, standard 256 colour 800x600.

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby trecool » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:45 pm

Highwire is working great but is outdated and really not much you can do with.
Netsurf is a good and working browser for those who have a SV or other video adapter.
Otherwise you can run it on text only mode, disabling images (and transparency) on choices file, and it will stop crashing on 256/16 color mode. Read readme file for more.

There were some 256 color experimental builds. The rendering was reported slow.

It would be nice if someone who has a build environment share a 256 color build. I can provide the settings variables (thanks Ole:)

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby OL » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:40 pm

mzry wrote:Hi all,

Highwire is working perfectly on my system (Latest Vanillamint 1.19) but I cannot get Netsurf to run reliably, it keeps crashing with get_wind AES call errors. I've tried both MyAES and XaAes without any luck. Highwire is too old and incompatible with modern website standards, does anyone have a good build of Netsurf maybe especially compiled for 060 I could have? I've even tried the nightly builds, they don't even open.

Thx


Recent version looks not work anymore, nobody to support Netsurf evolution for AES interface

You can try this version : http://gem.lutece.net/download/netsurf.zip

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby Rustynutt » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:40 pm

Remember when CAB was released, back then the internet was very compatible :)

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby trecool » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:43 am

I have tried Links and it's not bad.
16/256 color Netsurf would be nice to have

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby mzry » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:32 am

I wish there was a good coder out there that could make a 16/256 colour netsurf happen. It would breath new life into our old machines.

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby jfl » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:56 am

mzry wrote:I wish there was a good coder out there that could make a 16/256 colour netsurf happen. It would breath new life into our old machines.

By making them insufferably slow?

Don't get me wrong. I like Netsurf and it is probably fast compared to other current browsers but on my Firebee it is so slow I barely ever use it. I dread to see how slow it would be on anything lesser.

Atari machines or clones are simply not cut out for today's web.
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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby christos » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:50 am

jfl wrote:
mzry wrote:I wish there was a good coder out there that could make a 16/256 colour netsurf happen. It would breath new life into our old machines.

By making them insufferably slow?

Don't get me wrong. I like Netsurf and it is probably fast compared to other current browsers but on my Firebee it is so slow I barely ever use it. I dread to see how slow it would be on anything lesser.

Atari machines or clones are simply not cut out for today's web.


No kidding! Just checking to see how much cpu and ram visiting a website consumes on a modern pc, you will be surprised. I think a good idea would be to improve on highwire in a few stuff.

Add ssl so as to be able to visit more websites
Hard code support for some bootstrap classes so that you can load the responsive views of websites and not to have to scroll left or right.
Stability fixes

I think that even if you don't get the page you are supposed to, you can get a useful experience with just a few improvements.
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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby mzry » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:54 am

Yeah well that sounds good. A browser that filters out crap it doesn't want. Display the information, bam.

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby Rustynutt » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:30 pm

What about something like Links?
http://www.jikos.cz/~mikulas/links/

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby joska » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:12 pm

jfl wrote:Atari machines or clones are simply not cut out for today's web.


Indeed. Not only is the hardware too slow, but the OS lacks several essential features.
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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby frank.lukas » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:33 pm

The best you can get is a firebee with netsurf, but it is useless ...
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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby fidzen » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:46 pm

I use Netsurf on a Falcon with CT60e and Supervidel and I can't say that it's
useless. Of course it's not like my Macbook Pro, but it's very possible to surf
the net. It's all about to adapt to the system you use. I can easily wait for
30s to load a site on my Falcon, but on my Macbook I would go crazy with
that load time.
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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby wongck » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:51 am

Rustynutt wrote:What about something like Links?
http://www.jikos.cz/~mikulas/links/


You can find Links for atari here.
More or less same issue.
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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby Rustynutt » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:11 am

Thanks Wongck.
Didn't even look for a MiNT port :)
I see SSL/HTTP support.
Shouldn't that get you into (sorry) hotmail and PayPal?

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby trecool » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:30 am

trecool wrote:I have tried Links and it's not bad.

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby simonsunnyboy » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:37 am

I could imagine a simple rule set:
- force loading of mobile site versions
- do not render CSS, only decode it, use hardcoded Atari optimized CSS (atleast provide an option like this)
- incomplete Javascript implementation, only the features that are really necessary (an Atari must not be able to run a complete emulator inside a Javascript window)
- make image rendering b/w or greyscale by default

This will allow proper functional web browsing on the Atari as it was intended in the early 90s with support for the modern features.

Think of the Atari as an early smartphone regarding possibilities and capabilities of web access.
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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby Rustynutt » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:16 pm

Simonsunnyboy, that's exactly what I've been chewing over using a Nokia N8. The phone can be completely controlled via USB. Symbian has a few programming "hacks" available to get to the hardware. I say hack as I've read it's not been publically released. The Nokia browser is far outdated, there is the mobile version of Opera available for the phone. Most limitations I've found are with FB, EB and other resource intensive sites. There are several ROM cookers available for the line of phones however. In Windows, there's a small program where you can access file storage (without Windows file viewer), use the phone as a data modem, or via wireless access over a network, and the ROM cookers use the USB to UL/DL firmware. The N8 (as well as a few other models) has video out, Composite, SVHS and HDMI. Know this is basically no more than setting up one of those little boxes (I'm too old to remember everything I've read :) ) to work outside whatever O/S you are using on an Atari. So basically, you have all the internet access and connectivity the phone provides, storage, configurability, a non-windows environment (absolutely necessary :) ) , and pretty much any video output currently available to Atari. Only catch would be USB interface, and a small utility program to control the phone. Video output to say a PIP monitor, or flavor, and use the Atari as a terminal. Yea, your not using much of the Atari for access, however the N8 is hardly larger than the internal IDE drive on a Falcon. Apologize for all the "basically's", "however's" and like :).
Someone see anything I've not thought of ?

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby Rustynutt » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:07 pm

Here's a sample of threads using "Linux Nokia USB" as search term. It's one of those with "some" relevant information, and those struggling help request. There is a lot of information about how the O/S sees the phone when connected, some deep routed in Linux, and other how a specific version "automatically" connects when the device is seen on the USB port and is pre-set to be in Nokia Suite mode and USB mass storage. I have problems with MiNT, maybe someone here has time to read through this. Saw a few links to github, where Mikro was active only 4 months ago (where isn't he :) )

https://tareqalam.com/2008/07/11/connec ... -pc-suite/

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby joska » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:21 pm

As said before, the only realistic way to browse the web with an Atari today would be to offload the actual rendering to a proxy of some sort. Either rendering the web-page directly to a bitmap, or to an intermediate format the Atari can render itself. Highwire is pretty fast even on stock 030-machines, a proxy that converts today's websites to static HTML pages (and converts all the pictures/bitmaps to Atari screen format) would make it a lot more useful with today's web.

https://virtuallyfun.superglobalmegacorp.com/2014/03/03/surfing-modern-web-with-ancient-browsers/
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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby Rustynutt » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:01 pm

That's the term I was searching for the other night, "Web proxy" :) Use to be one of the defacto ways to use early versions of FireFox with on a 486. Thanks for dusting the cobwebs Jo!

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby mzry » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:06 am

Wow that web proxy looks amazing! I'm gonna learn how to get it going. It would me amazing to have it running on my network to route my retro machines through it.

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Re: A good & working net browser?

Postby joska » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:15 am

Would be even more useful if the client (Atari) could pass the proxy some information about screen layout, so the proxy can generate bitmaps directly in Atari screen format.
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