CTX60

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CTX60

Postby Latz » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:32 am

Hi,
for those of you which can read french, Rodolphe announced a new CT project:
The CTX60
http://www.yaronet.com/posts.php?s=152222
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Re: CTX60

Postby BoNuS » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:40 am

Google translate is your friend ;) (no editing what so ever by me)

Here, following the first post "codename: CTX60" I opened the ball with this post dedicated to CTX60 final official name card for Falcon, falcon version WITHOUT being named PX60 and being a second project later ( if I have time!) ...
By cons for CTX60, ca must go fast enough ...
Down the block diagram.

CTX60 is a single card in the falcon with:
CT60
CTPCI
USB NEC Chip
Chip RTL8139 Ethernet
PCI-PCIe Bridge with PCIe slot PCIe graphics card
1 PCI slot

The slots are arranged so that by using a PCI card couch (!) Outputs with strip cards can be found at the rear of the falcon!
Y is the place to do this for the PCIe and PCI ...
Also keep a place for super videl card which will also exit at the back ... but it will be graphics card or Supervidel, 2 have no interest since we still VIDEL the falcon ... therefore:
VIDEL for games and old stuff + graphics card for apps GEM
or SUPERVIDEL for all apps (?) ... if you can still buy one day (hum. ..)

The 060 will also be relocated to avoid being hassled with the keyboard ... if large cooler (!)

2 IDE ports are on the map and there by CTX60 against the port falcon will finally convicted, but the 030 mode, you can access the 2 ports on the CTX (where I work in the logic!). they will be right near the floppy because it will take 2.5 HDD pref and place on or under the floppy ... it goes!

It is possible that I put a compact flash drive with rear exit ... to see if it will be added to the end of a lap, but I do not delight tablecloths ...

The I2C port is accessible from the 030, if the 060 was planted with a clock too high.

Ditto for the 030 flash.
The latter could be the BURST to explode the times of starting falcon with the BIOS of the graphics card (it takes 14 sec, but now divided Didier / 2 if the last reboot PCITOS not yet distributed). With the flash burst could still go down ...

There will be a new RTC with CR2032, but powered by the +5 V standby power supply for ATX ... not wear the CR2032 unless you disconnect from the socket.
It will be accessed by I2C: Didier there must redo the system function of RTC ... but it is a joke to him ...
It has 512 byte NVRAM, what save a lot of boot parameters!

The chip is programmed and not a single chip to gain more space but also allow more logical thing ... with 3 chips because it is a hassle to filter or divert access the falcon ...
There will be more macrocells and it's going to help a lot of stuff more ...
Including a buffer for the 060 when written in the falcon, it releases on the bus .. and continue about their business while the chip balance the two words in the 16MHz speed falcon. The same applies to the 56001 with 3 bytes ...
It would be nice to display VIDEL ... How not monopolize the time from 060 to wait for the hard of falcon answer ...

There's still some ideas as to the SDMA can targetter SDRAM adding a byte to the most significant address counter SDMA departure ... in the logic of the operation ... CTX60 acrobatic logic but that is the charm for me ...

Finally, it should be possible to reprogram the chip logic running without crashing ... So this since the 060.
But of course it is also possible to do this from el 030 JTAG cable is integrated with the map ...
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Re: CTX60

Postby wongck » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:02 pm

If it does not need one to mess around with the huge amount of random wires/cables, I think it is worth it.
But with economic situation as it is now, I think I will not dive into it.

May be a whole new motherboard... rather than an accelerator... but then it will be like a firebee but may on pure 060 codes, possible ??
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Re: CTX60

Postby vido » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:25 pm

Exactly!
Whole motherboard would make much more sense and it would be CT60 compatible. As you said we allready have FireBee which is much more cabable by performance. But CT? motherboard would be much more interesting for the demo/gaming scene.
Well I have CT63 Falcon and I will have my FireBee as main computer.

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Re: CTX60

Postby nativ » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:22 pm

wongck wrote:May be a whole new motherboard... rather than an accelerator... but then it will be like a firebee but may on pure 060 codes, possible ??



If I get what you are saying right, it really should be a Falcon compatible computer on it's own rather than an expansion board? How much more dev would it take? as nice as it is to improve the functionality of the Falcon... maybe like the external box add on that is the NEC Pc emulator? as then you don't have to try and stuff it all inside the Falcon or recase?????
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Re: CTX60

Postby Cyprian » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:17 pm

from my point of view the most interesting part is PX60
If Rodolphe realize it will be a revolution.
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Re: CTX60

Postby Rodolphe » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:27 pm

Firebee is not so powerfull !
Didier and others developpers who tried FB can confirme that memory accesses are 2 times slower than on CT60 !
They do not know why but this is a fact !
With the CTX60 I will bring higher SDRAM performances...
I will explain this later...

Other (important) détail :
The CT60 was done with a old nice but limited CAD software named EAGLE.
The CTPCI was done on a powerfull software from Mentor graphics (CAD leader) : DX Designer for hierarchical schematics and PADS alout and PADS router for the PCB.
The CTX60 will be designed on these software, what means creating parts in the library...long work...
BUT after it is done, you can consider that 50% of a PX60 will be already done !
So, doing the CTX60 is a step to PX60.
Actually 25 atari falcon users are looking for a CT60 (+ CTPCI) :
What should I do ?
Not support them and let them put away their falcon and leave our small world ???
NO !!!
Again, when you speak, do not consider only your position/situation, think large to all the atari community : I mean ATARI as real ATARI machines we all try to get alive !
What would be the atari world if I never designed the CT60 ??
Think well about that ...
The atari machines (!) support must continue and I urge all people developping on atari to keep that in mind and do all effort in this sense !
All new atari users who just found a falcon are welcome ! And CTX60 will help to welcome them so better !
By the way I'd like to adapt the CTX60 to MEGA ST machines (surely the better atari machine ever done by atari in the great hours of the company (87-89, when Apple was affraid by MEGA ST + SLM804 !), nice design pizza box, place inside, bus connector... and great quality mechanical keyboard !
MAybe Didier or other would have energy and time to patch a TOS 2.06 or a 4.04... Can we dream ?
It is so easy to find many MEGA ST for cheap price ! Would be a great manner to keep alive atari world too.
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Re: CTX60

Postby vido » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:14 pm

What is PX60?

It is true about the speed of the RAM on the FireBee but FireBee is still in development and I believe it allways will be because of its design. Performance of the FireBee will improve in the future.

Anyway what I wanted to say is that I wont buy CTX60 as I allready have CT63 and I had CT60. I wish Rodolphe to make and sell as much CTX60 as possible. This will bring even more life on Atari scene. But maybe I will be interested in PX60 whan I will know what is it?
As a owner of the FireBee I will focus on it. I think it is the most promising Atari computer regarding productivity software. But I would also like new Falcon/CT60 compatible motherboard so I could forget my old Atari Falcon which will probably die in near future.

Well Rodolphe, I wish you all the best with your projects! I will support you in everything Atari related and buy what is interesting to me as I did till now.

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Re: CTX60

Postby rian_ata » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:16 pm

I can only applaud this new initiative by Rodolphe! Like he says this will only increase the user base with more powerful Atari's which might be more interesting for developers of software, demos and drivers, etc. I myself hope this will attract more developers so the outstanding functionalities of CTPCI will also become reality (network for example).

I'll wait for more information and based on my needs and the way they can be fulfilled by this new solution I'll decide if I'll buy one or not.

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Re: CTX60

Postby wongck » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:15 am

rian_ata wrote:I myself hope this will attract more developers so the outstanding functionalities of CTPCI will also become reality (network for example).

It is already a reality, look here!!!
You just need a particular TOS (beta). For me, even the beta TOS rockz!!!
And in a few weeks I hope the final release will come and we can all use it.

Actually my programs was target for CT63/CTPCI because I am using it.
At least one more network capable software coming from me this year :wink:
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Re: CTX60

Postby Dal » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:58 am

What is PX60?
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Re: CTX60

Postby Ektus » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:23 am

Dal wrote:What is PX60?

That's a complete Falcon replacement based on the CTX60, currently only a mind experiment.

Regards
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Re: CTX60

Postby rian_ata » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:02 pm

wongck wrote:
rian_ata wrote:I myself hope this will attract more developers so the outstanding functionalities of CTPCI will also become reality (network for example).

It is already a reality, look here!!!
You just need a particular TOS (beta). For me, even the beta TOS rockz!!!
And in a few weeks I hope the final release will come and we can all use it.

Actually my programs was target for CT63/CTPCI because I am using it.
At least one more network capable software coming from me this year :wink:


Mm, ok, need to get in contact with Didier as I'm using beta9 and that doesn't work for me :-)

And Wongck don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your new developments! What I meant and you probably understand is I would love to see a broader development scene 8) Hopefully a reliable USB mass storage package for example?! :cheers:

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Re: CTX60

Postby joska » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:59 pm

Rodolphe wrote:Firebee is not so powerfull !
Didier and others developpers who tried FB can confirme that memory accesses are 2 times slower than on CT60 !
They do not know why but this is a fact !


Well... I don't know about that. Tests performed by those "other developpers" indicates that a 100MHz CT60 is about 30% faster than the FireBee when accessing DRAM. However, the FireBee is about 100% faster than a 100MHz 060 when accessing the data cache. As the data cache is normally heavily used, the FireBee will in real life be substantially faster than a CT60.

Don't get me wrong, I think the CT60 (and the new projects you announce here) are really cool, but it's advantage over the FireBee is not raw speed.

Btw I'm looking forward to the PX60. I will probably buy one when/if it becomes reality.
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Re: CTX60

Postby AtFaCT » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:44 pm

I think a CTX60 is a fantastic idea even if I´m using a CT60 and CTPCI. Awesome all this stuff: CT60, CTPCI, USB NEC chip, RTL8139 Ethernet chip, PCI-PCIe bridge with PCIe slot for PCIe graphics card, one PCI slot, new RTC with CR2032, better integration into the Falcon case, some improvements to the architecture for a faster system, and so on. Incredible. It´s not just a CT60 with CTPCI: It´s the next generation Falcon booster!

Moreover, it´s a big step towards a new Falcon computer. We should support Rodolphe to achieve this target: a PTX60.

Rodolphe´s addons has always been great. In combination with Didier´s system software, we get things we´d never dreamt of in the nineties.

Best regards,
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Re: CTX60

Postby Dal » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:32 pm

Agreed. Assuming I still have a working Falcon when it's released, I'm getting one!
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Re: CTX60

Postby CiH » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:39 pm

Agreed. Assuming I still have a working Falcon when it's released, I'm getting one!


Hope you're not having to sell off that lovely stage piano to pay for it! :wink:
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Re: CTX60

Postby Dal » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:01 pm

Ha ha - no way. That keyboard is getting me some great gigs so far
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Re: CTX60

Postby paul92706 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:39 pm

Dal wrote:Ha ha - no way. That keyboard is getting me some great gigs so far

hey dal, i pratically sold all my drums cymbols to pay for my CT60 from rodolphe! lol no more gigs for me :( but i do have my ct60 back woo hoo :)
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Re: CTX60

Postby calimero » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:38 am

Ektus wrote:
Dal wrote:What is PX60?

That's a complete Falcon replacement based on the CTX60, currently only a mind experiment.

Regards
Ektus.

for PX60 to be Falcon compatible it needs VIDEL or SuperVIDEL ;)
...otherwise it will be another GEM like clone (no games, no demos).
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Re: CTX60

Postby Rodolphe » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:42 pm

calimero wrote:
Ektus wrote:
Dal wrote:What is PX60?

That's a complete Falcon replacement based on the CTX60, currently only a mind experiment.

Regards
Ektus.

for PX60 to be Falcon compatible it needs VIDEL or SuperVIDEL ;)
...otherwise it will be another GEM like clone (no games, no demos).


Exactly : 2 possibilities.
plan A : SuperVidel
if not possible, plan B = VIDEL chip .
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Re: CTX60

Postby Rodolphe » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:45 pm

V 0.3 CTX60

With SV PCIe & PCI card
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Re: CTX60

Postby SoundDoctor » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:27 pm

Looking at the dimensions it should be possible to incorporate a power inlet connector somewhere above the parallel port. It's a really neat design. There are some good and inexpensive connectors available so long as they can cope with the amps the board pulls. Though getting the cables past the SuperVidel could be a problem, unless the power molex was on the underside of the board and the cables were routed under the CTX60. Do you have any data on the projected power consumption of the board Rodolphe? This would be a great opportunity to come up with a good external mini ATX PSU custom adapted solution to finish the whole thing off.

I used Bing Translator so....

'to see, otherwise it will be to add at the end of a slick, but it only enchants me groundwater'...

...sounds exciting ;-)
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Re: CTX60

Postby paul92706 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:47 pm

It looks like the CTX60 is gonna fit nicely, it is rather big. I see the PCI cards are gonna sit parallel on top middle of CTX60.No more external PCB...
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Re: CTX60

Postby Dal » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:13 pm

What a great design. I especially like the position of the ports and cf slot so potentially easy access (after surgery). Nice to have 5v PCI slot too.

Will the PCI slot sit higher than the PCIe slot? I can't visualise how both slots can be next to each other and have the cards laying parallel to the CTX60.
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