Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

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Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby instream » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:35 pm

Hi!

A few weeks ago I had a problem with a CT60 not wanting to power on. The fan just spinned for a second or so and then it stopped. I pulled out my arsenal of measurement equipment and could locate the problem after several nights of measurements:
There was no capacitor on the +5VSB power net of the CT60, so the +5VSB had ugly spikes going all the way down to 2.5V. This caused a 74-chip (see the picture) to cause a power down in the ATX power supply a short while after power up.

The solution was to put a 10uF 1206 capacitor on the back of the 74-chip you see in the image. Then the +5VSB became nice and stable, and there were no power-on problems anymore.

The cap has one end soldered to the leftmost pin on the 74-chip. This is the +5VSB. The other end is soldered to the 3rd pin from the left, which is connected to ground on the CT60. The pin between these is also GND, so there is no big risk of short circuit with the right end. Just be careful to not let the left side of the cap touch the 2nd pin on the chip.

You can probably use almost any capacitance here. I think 0.1 uF and up should do fine. I just happened to have 10uF lying around.
If you have a smaller package cap than 1206, it should be able to fit on the two leftmost pins also, instead of skipping one which I did.

/instream

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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby wongck » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:05 pm

This is great.
I had such an issue several weeks back
viewtopic.php?f=97&t=23048
Unfortunately for me, I am no hardware expert and no array of equipment/tools to test on.

Anyway, I have sent it off to Rodolphe but had no reply from him yet.
(but I tracked the package as delivered ).
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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby instream » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:55 am

From your description I don't think it's the same problem. My problem makes the PSU shut itself down, so you immediately see that the 060 fan stops spinning, within a second. The monitor should have very little time to react, if the Videl even had time to generate the video signals.

I have had your "wrong frequency" message on the monitor several times before, and it should be caused by the CT60 not being able to init the Videl, so it displays a default RGB mode.

The last time it happened I came to the conclusion that there was oxide on the CT60 socket connectors going down to the motherboard. So I just used a wide flat screwdriver to gently lift the CT60 up 1mm or so, by sticking it between the black plastic parts near the motherboard. With the POWER OFF. Then it worked again.

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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby wongck » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:00 pm

instream wrote:The last time it happened I came to the conclusion that there was oxide on the CT60 socket connectors going down to the motherboard. So I just used a wide flat screwdriver to gently lift the CT60 up 1mm or so, by sticking it between the black plastic parts near the motherboard. With the POWER OFF. Then it worked again.


Interesting remedy, I wonder if it will work on mine. Now I will never know.
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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby paul92706 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:53 pm

wongck wrote:
instream wrote:The last time it happened I came to the conclusion that there was oxide on the CT60 socket connectors going down to the motherboard. So I just used a wide flat screwdriver to gently lift the CT60 up 1mm or so, by sticking it between the black plastic parts near the motherboard. With the POWER OFF. Then it worked again.


Interesting remedy, I wonder if it will work on mine. Now I will never know.

i guess all we can do is wait!! 5 months for me and counting :(
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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby Rodolphe » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:19 am

GREAT WORK AROUND ! :P
Thanks
I never took time to have a look on this very old problem ! And it seems I would have need much time :roll:


instream wrote:Hi!

A few weeks ago I had a problem with a CT60 not wanting to power on. The fan just spinned for a second or so and then it stopped. I pulled out my arsenal of measurement equipment and could locate the problem after several nights of measurements:
There was no capacitor on the +5VSB power net of the CT60, so the +5VSB had ugly spikes going all the way down to 2.5V. This caused a 74-chip (see the picture) to cause a power down in the ATX power supply a short while after power up.

The solution was to put a 10uF 1206 capacitor on the back of the 74-chip you see in the image. Then the +5VSB became nice and stable, and there were no power-on problems anymore.

The cap has one end soldered to the leftmost pin on the 74-chip. This is the +5VSB. The other end is soldered to the 3rd pin from the left, which is connected to ground on the CT60. The pin between these is also GND, so there is no big risk of short circuit with the right end. Just be careful to not let the left side of the cap touch the 2nd pin on the chip.

You can probably use almost any capacitance here. I think 0.1 uF and up should do fine. I just happened to have 10uF lying around.
If you have a smaller package cap than 1206, it should be able to fit on the two leftmost pins also, instead of skipping one which I did.

/instream

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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby wongck » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:40 am

Rodolphe wrote:GREAT WORK AROUND ! :P
Thanks
I never took time to have a look on this very old problem ! And it seems I would have need much time :roll:


So, Rodolphe, have you got a look at my CT63.... is it this problem?
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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby pinkstone » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:46 pm

Is it related with the reset delay at power on cap shown in http://www.powerphenix.com/CT60/english/fitting63.htm ? If so, my main problem is solved!!

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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby instream » Wed May 02, 2012 2:55 pm

pinkstone wrote:Is it related with the reset delay at power on cap shown in http://www.powerphenix.com/CT60/english/fitting63.htm ? If so, my main problem is solved!!

I don't think they are the same since your problem gives you a black screen while the computer is on and the fan is still spinning, right? My problem makes the PSU turn itself off, and the fan stops spinning after about 1 sec.

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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby pinkstone » Wed May 02, 2012 9:44 pm

instream wrote:
pinkstone wrote:Is it related with the reset delay at power on cap shown in http://www.powerphenix.com/CT60/english/fitting63.htm ? If so, my main problem is solved!!

I don't think they are the same since your problem gives you a black screen while the computer is on and the fan is still spinning, right? My problem makes the PSU turn itself off, and the fan stops spinning after about 1 sec.


I don´t remember the details because it was a year ago but I´m going to open the Falcon these days to see what happen with the fan. Although, what I do remember is when the black screen happen in 060 mode, I change the CT to 030, boot normally and then change it back to 060 mode and reset.

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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby wongck » Wed May 02, 2012 10:38 pm

pinkstone wrote:I don´t remember the details because it was a year ago but I´m going to open the Falcon these days to see what happen with the fan. Although, what I do remember is when the black screen happen in 060 mode, I change the CT to 030, boot normally and then change it back to 060 mode and reset.


I also encounter this issue on boot up on 060 on first power up after a hardware change - like putting in the EtherNEC.
I use the this same solution. Subsequent power up is always no more issues.
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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby Rustynutt » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:56 pm

instream wrote:
pinkstone wrote:Is it related with the reset delay at power on cap shown in http://www.powerphenix.com/CT60/english/fitting63.htm ? If so, my main problem is solved!!

I don't think they are the same since your problem gives you a black screen while the computer is on and the fan is still spinning, right? My problem makes the PSU turn itself off, and the fan stops spinning after about 1 sec.


My first install of the CT60. Time ago purchased an Allied 300W ATX supply w/power switch at rear. Tested before connecting to the CT60 with a couple disk on power, and grounding the green wire. The supply did not come up, the fan jiggled a bit, that was it.

Have another older ATX ps, tried the same test, and with green grounded, either long or short, the power supply will not power the hard disk.

Tried on the CT after reading it "handles" this by jumping pin 1&2, with the same result as you mention about the CT fan. So the CT switch pin 1&2 is setup like in a tower, only grounding green briefly? I only know nuts, bolts and pins, not electrons.

Missing something here, and before soldering a cap onto the 5V power to the 74, need to figure it out :) Should be able to bench test the power supply.

Since we are soldering on the CT60, I have two, one from back when they were sold as CT60, and one as a CT63.
On the CT60, there is a component "4991 BSCJ" soldered on an IC. On the CT63, it is not present.
Is this a "tuning" modification, or a REV change between board runs?

THX!
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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby Rustynutt » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:35 pm

Better late than never...

May Mr. Cubza finally get sleep thinking of me all these years, having one of his cards and never installing it.
Plugged in my July 2003 CT60 and fired it up.
Actually, other than the grin on my face, was pretty uneventful.
Has to be some kind of record for procrastination.
No issues, it just booted and worked. Dropped in an 80MHz clock this morning to be sure I wasn't dreaming.
Booted right up.
Used the "Atari" Falcon VGA video connector. Old Westinghouse (yes, read right) 17" 16*9 LCD monitor.
Apex is stupid fast now.

Tested 4 68060's, two full versions, two EC versions. Kind of what prodded me to install the CT, needed to verify operation of those CPU's for another project. Boot screen reports the 060 Rodolphe included with the CT, having a fan and heat sink installed, as a E4IJ mask, but cannot confirm that.
The other 060 are (full version) RC50A OIG65V, the two EC versions (RC75MHz) 02G59Y and (RC66MHz) 02G59Y, different code of 9815B as opposed to 9813C for the previous unit. AIRC, early verisons of the ABE (? sp) do not report the CPU mask correctly.

The CT has never had a flash performed. Boot screen says V0.99a, but think that's different than ABE flash revision numbers (have lots to learn).
Do have a SuperVidel and SVLan card, something else to work on later down the road.

Going to be hard NOT to get pulled away and toy with the Falcon now :)

A while back the post (below this one) talks about letting the smoke out from one of my Falcons after a "first" attempt installing the CT.
After having a friend replace the Videl and updating the 030 to a 33MHz version, turns out the NVRAM battery was dead to start out with.
To one of the users here (Symbo?) credit, he did steer me in the right direction trouble shooting the dead unit, even without the proper (any actually) tools for the job. I now have a full 48" wide hand drawn schematic of the Falcon mainboard hanging in my computer room, thanks to him.
You never realize how much you learn on a project, until well after it's done, and another project draws from past experience.
Still, no genius :)
I have a couple other Falcons with bus speeders installed, at some point will move the CT to one of those machines, along with other hardware.

For installation information purpose:
Purchased this Falcon early this year from Germany. (So yes, a PAL version for us "U.S." Never Twice the Same Color types).
Easy to see even before removing the case, it had seen a very very hard life. If springs were placed between cases, the length of screws would have allowed the unit to be used as an Accordian.
It didn't get any better once the Falcon board was exposed.
Must have been a "sea side" unit, will require a lot of cleaning. Then I live in the Mojave Desert with typical 12% humidity, corrosion isn't something I'm used to seeing.
Lots of solder blobs remain where previous modifications had been tried, removed, or other nightmares performed.
Still has the "F08" buffer chip mod. It's a Rev D/C board.
But, after installing a HD Driver 7.56 setup Toshiba MK 1GB 2.5" IDE drive with NVDI (V5.3?) only in the autofolder, no acc's, it did boot fine (after reflowing the solder on the video connector pins). To whomever's credit, they did do the cap mod on the Falcon RST button....
Installing the CT was done with the board removed from the case, on the bench. No shielding present.
Used a generic 300 watt ATX powersupply.
128M of PC133 SDRAM.
Audio line out mod, or at least an attempt at doing so...
Falcon ST RAM 4MB card used.
Used the CT "on off" function jumper with momentary switch.
LED light from some hard disk case setting on the shelf.
Oh, and did not drag my feet across the carpet during instalation, with all my outlets confirmed to have ground wiring.

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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby DarkLord » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:46 pm

Congrats on joining the '060 club!

About time. :)
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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby wongck » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:55 am

ha ha... sounds like your having fun in the desert.
Nice to see that some falc are flying again. :D
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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby watzl-berg » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:17 am

Just want to inform everybody with a CT63 that doesn't power on and only shows a black screen. I had the same issue and contacted Didier Mequinon. One week ago he sent me an new TOS-version (beta-version, build about one year ago). After flashing the CT63 with that new software the black screen issue is gone!! So leave your soldering iron in the drawer. It seams to be a software-problem! I don't know, if Didier would object me spreading this software. So I would recommend to contact him for this new CTPCITOS.bin.

Toni

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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby paul92706 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:44 pm

watzl-berg wrote:Just want to inform everybody with a CT63 that doesn't power on and only shows a black screen. I had the same issue and contacted Didier Mequinon. One week ago he sent me an new TOS-version (beta-version, build about one year ago). After flashing the CT63 with that new software the black screen issue is gone!! So leave your soldering iron in the drawer. It seams to be a software-problem! I don't know, if Didier would object me spreading this software. So I would recommend to contact him for this new CTPCITOS.bin.

Toni

I also mentioned this to some user on here, forgot who, that a black screen doesn't always meet a gubbed up CT60. Alot of the time it's flashing the CT63 with correct software.
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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby Rustynutt » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:25 am

Need to find time.....Haven't really done a lot since the last post.
I tried the cap mod on the CT63 another user updated his with, no joy last I tried.
Ended up breaking off a few of the RTC pins deep in the Falcon board, have yet to get a decent solder sucker to get them out and replace the IC.

We are packing to (trying hard) to move end of this year. I still have the Falcon accessible on the work bench, just need to put myself to it. Not set up to flash the CT via a USB device, think I might try doing it on the Falcon expansion bus. I've seen some say it's risky, others say it works fine. Without even the basic test equipment, can't verify clocks or other points, guess it couldn't hurt (much) to just try and flash the unit. The CT60 is working fine still.

Thanks for the updates, a promising test to check operation of the CT63 without a long of heat on the tip :)

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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Tue May 26, 2015 7:41 pm

instream wrote:Hi!

A few weeks ago I had a problem with a CT60 not wanting to power on. The fan just spinned for a second or so and then it stopped. I pulled out my arsenal of measurement equipment and could locate the problem after several nights of measurements:
There was no capacitor on the +5VSB power net of the CT60, so the +5VSB had ugly spikes going all the way down to 2.5V. This caused a 74-chip (see the picture) to cause a power down in the ATX power supply a short while after power up.

The solution was to put a 10uF 1206 capacitor on the back of the 74-chip you see in the image. Then the +5VSB became nice and stable, and there were no power-on problems anymore.

The cap has one end soldered to the leftmost pin on the 74-chip. This is the +5VSB. The other end is soldered to the 3rd pin from the left, which is connected to ground on the CT60. The pin between these is also GND, so there is no big risk of short circuit with the right end. Just be careful to not let the left side of the cap touch the 2nd pin on the chip.

You can probably use almost any capacitance here. I think 0.1 uF and up should do fine. I just happened to have 10uF lying around.
If you have a smaller package cap than 1206, it should be able to fit on the two leftmost pins also, instead of skipping one which I did.

/instream]


I am having this same problem with a picopsu and CT63. I put a .1uF ceramic cap on the 2 legs you show, but the problem persists. Should I get some 10uF caps instead?

Image

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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby jury » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:12 pm

instream wrote:The solution was to put a 10uF 1206 capacitor on the back of the 74-chip you see in the image. Then the +5VSB became nice and stable, and there were no power-on problems anymore.


At my local electronic shop they didnt have 10uF 1206 ones. Even more, I've been told that they don't have any other smd ones also.
I only had an option as presented on a photo. My electronics knowledge is none, so can you please let me know if it will be fine replacement for this smd and I can try to solder it? ( on top printed: 10 25V HB7 or H87 )
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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby instream » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:57 pm

I think you can try soldering that capacitor if it's not too large to fit. Beware of the polarity of that capacitor though. Minus is marked with black, so that side shall be soldered to a GND pin. If you are vey inexperienced with soldering then maybe you should try getting hold of a capacitor with legs instead, for hole mounting, which should be a lot easier to solder in that tight place.

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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby jury » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:56 am

Thanks for the confirmation. Unfortunately it didnt help, still no power on :(
But I will try to buy ceramic capacitor with long pins and try again, because this was a real nightmare ( yes, I have almost none soldering experience ) to try to solder it so I'm not 100% sure it went properly.

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Re: Fix for CT60/63 that doesn't power on

Postby jury » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:11 pm

I have bought electrolytic capacitors ( 10uF ) and with those long legs soldering ( even with almost zero experience as mine :) ) was a piece of cake. Couple of seconds and it was there :)
But unfortunately it didn't help. The machine behaves the same, which is no power up. And I really need to replace the power supply. Darn :(
Any clues are welcome.


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