Value of a F030 plus CT63 = ?

Discuss CT60/CT63, CTPCI, SuperVidel and EtherNAT hardware here.

Moderators: Mug UK, moondog/.tSCc., [ProToS], lp, Moderator Team

User avatar
FatRakoon
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:27 am
Location: Behind the grassy knoll
Contact:

Value of a F030 plus CT63 = ?

Postby FatRakoon » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:09 am

Just wondering...

If I was to sell off my Falcon, what would a fair value of it be?

Its a MiNT Falcon, NVRAM is now socketed with a new CHIP ( less than a month ago ) and a spare, currently has a 6GBHD but I am about to put the Compact Flash card & Adapter back in, so it will have a 512MB and a 4GB Card.
Its got 14MB STRAM and 256MB TT RAM ( Crucial CAS 2 PC133 )
Its got a CT63 and any and all teething troubles are very much gone now.

Reason Im thinking, is that I am starting to use my TT more and the Falcon just doesnt feel right me using it because the top is off and all bare etc ( I really need to re-house it )

But, Im thinking...
Only thinking...
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

mikro
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1287
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:11 am
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Postby mikro » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:10 pm

Honestly, I can't think of one single reason why is TT better than falcon+ct60.

- graphics? 800x600/256@75 Hz (and ton of others) vs 640x480/16@60 Hz (with stupid white border)

- sound? tt has any? ;-)

- speed? 060@100 vs 030@32

- extendibility? Falcon as everything (and a lot of more) except ACSI and VME

- memory? 512 MB SDRAM vs XX MB SIMM

- software? Is there any software which doesnt run on falcon but on TT does? (ok, beamsTT, as falcon demo rewritten for tt030 ;)

- ???

You're crazy ;-)

User avatar
FatRakoon
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:27 am
Location: Behind the grassy knoll
Contact:

Postby FatRakoon » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:11 pm

I did write a whoel load of things about why the TT has abilities that the Falcon does not...

I think though I wil cut it does to just a few thigns...

1
My TTs run EVERYTHING I throw at them and have never failed.
My Falcon however has issues.
I cannot fathom why, but I feel that not only do I have a TT that runs 100% of the software I have, even the software that does not run on a TT, but I also seem to have a Falcon that does not run any of the Software I have - especailyl the Falcon only stuff LOL

Example

HiSoft Basic DOES run on a Falcon doesnt it?
Not on mine it doesnt.
At first I have a warning message saying it needs an 020 or higher, and an FPU
So, I get it an FPU but I still get the messages?
I put the 060 in and I still get them???
Does the 060 use the FPU or does it have one built-in?
Either way, I have NEVER been able to get HiSoft Basic v2.10 to run on my Falcon.

Other side of the coin, does substation run on a TT?

Yes it does and perfectly fine too! - At least it does on mine.
I kind of think that my TT is actually a MegaSTE with an 030 and TTRAM.

All I want, is to be able to run an atari that does what it says on the tin, and my TT has been doing that for the past few years without fail.

The benefits of a Falcon for me ( I say for me here ) are simply NOT worth it... I dont need the extra features although I thought I would, I simply dont.

I feel that I would be better off getting rid of the Falcon and buying myself a graphics card and more RAM for the TT.

The speed... Sure, I will drop in speed but the TT is a much snappier system that the Falcon all round that the speed difference is not making as much of a difference as I would have thought.

Hang on...

Partition sizes...

Now, thats a big difference.... 512MB on the TT and 1GB on the Falcon.

Until recently, I have been using a 512MB Compact Flash card as C: and a 4GB Card as D: to I: and the rest were on SCSI and the partition sizes are useable for CuBase etc on the Falcon but a little constricting on the TT.
Sure, I could use BigDos I suppose? I dont need C: to be all that big.

I dont know?

Maybe I am crazy, but I have spent well over £500 on my current Falcon and in truth, I have spents weeks on end either upgrading it or adding to it os trying to get those upgrades/addons to run right, and now it finally is, and I have hardly had the chance to actualyl use it fully... So much so, that I have dug out my TT again, and teh Falcon is no longer my main system.

Im thinking that maybe I should ditch the whole idea and concentrate on my TT but also in the back of my head... Will my TT then have the issues my Falcon had/has?

AAARRGGGHHH!!!!


( cries in corner eating own faeces )
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

User avatar
bullis1
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2301
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:32 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Postby bullis1 » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:04 pm

Well, FatRakoon, since you've described the issues you have with your Falcon I'm gonna say it's worth... not as much as it should be. If you're going to sell it on here, make sure to create a new user account with a different name and info first :P

mikro
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1287
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:11 am
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Postby mikro » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:03 pm

I don't want to start some flame or anything (I'm happy user of TT030, too) but I think you judge too quickly -- just because some software is such bad written it can't detect other FPU than 6888x and because you've had some setup-problems? For me, every software which should run -> runs. I was one of the first people who received ct60 (firmware was in very untested stage) and I can't blame ct60 for anything. Stable, fast, cool. TT is just a nice "test machine"...

FatRakoon wrote:My TTs run EVERYTHING I throw at them and have never failed.
My Falcon however has issues.

this is very subjective, I code/enjoy demos, no demo for falcon (not speaking about ST/STE) will run on TT, no falcon game will run on TT, no falcon tool will run on TT (apex for example; ok, there are some 030-based GEM apps which run on both TT and Falcon)

FatRakoon wrote:Either way, I have NEVER been able to get HiSoft Basic v2.10 to run on my Falcon.

You see that difference between us -- I start Devpac, patch that stupid check for 020/68882 FPU and I'm happy again, no need to use TT :)

FatRakoon wrote:Other side of the coin, does substation run on a TT?

And Falcon?

FatRakoon wrote:All I want, is to be able to run an atari that does what it says on the tin, and my TT has been doing that for the past few years without fail.

You will be surprised how big compatibility you could gain with running ST/E stuff under... ST/E machine! ;-) Falcon has falcon-specific software, ST has ST-specific software... but there's no TT-specific software...

FatRakoon wrote:I feel that I would be better off getting rid of the Falcon and buying myself a graphics card and more RAM for the TT.

And what gives your such (super old, deprecated, unsupported, second-hand) gfx card? Ability to enjoy nice resolution for ... GEM apps. Again not anything which falcon couldn't give you (think about PCI Radeon or SuperVidel -- ok ok, not finished, but supported some day in the future :)

FatRakoon wrote:The speed... Sure, I will drop in speed but the TT is a much snappier system that the Falcon all round that the speed difference is not making as much of a difference as I would have thought.

Eh? You don't compile some sources too often, right? ;-) That speed difference is something between 10 times to 20 times speed up in CPU expensive tasks (freemint + all unix stuff, compilation, calculation, ...)

FatRakoon wrote:Now, thats a big difference.... 512MB on the TT and 1GB on the Falcon.

On the other side, this is the topic where Falcon gives you nothing -- under freemint you can use nearly unlimited partitions both on TT and Falcon ;)

From my point of view, you just had bad luck with configuration of ct60, that's all. There's really nothing you can place against 030/060 Falcon. You still can use 030 Falcon + FPU for maximum compatibility but as Evil/DHS says... you will never want to come back !!! ;-)

User avatar
alexh
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2581
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:52 pm
Location: UK - Oxford
Contact:

Postby alexh » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:01 pm

£200 quid, I'll even pop round and pick it up and take you out for a pint. Hows about that then? Cant say fairer than that can I? Cracking deal Eh? Eh? ;)

User avatar
FatRakoon
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:27 am
Location: Behind the grassy knoll
Contact:

Postby FatRakoon » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:15 pm

bullis1 wrote:Well, FatRakoon, since you've described the issues you have with your Falcon I'm gonna say it's worth... not as much as it should be. If you're going to sell it on here, make sure to create a new user account with a different name and info first :P



:wink:
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

User avatar
FatRakoon
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:27 am
Location: Behind the grassy knoll
Contact:

Postby FatRakoon » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:53 pm

To Mikro.

You missed my point. When I said anythgin will run on my TT, I did not mean to include Falcon specific stuff, which, mifght I add is not supposed to run on anything other than a Falcon, so thats a ridiculous point to bring to the table.

You mention about DevPac, and DevPac for me runs fine on my Falcon.
Its HiSoft Basic that I cannot run and yet, I know it should run fine on a FAlcon... I have never managed it because it said I had to FPU but now I have one, it says I need an 020 or better? - Its just never happy with my Falcon. Its got nothign to do with the CT63 although if I run it in 060 Mode, I get the FPU Message again?

Again You bring up substation.
Substation is supposed to run on STE and FAlcon. It does not run on an ST, STFM, or a TT... Just the STE and the Falcon. It runs fine on my TT and near to no other TT owner can apparently run it??? - I dont know about this in truth because I run it just fine, and I have only been told that it should not run on a TT. But again, to bring up the note of it running on a Falcon when its supposed to run on a falcon is silly I think.

Your Point of Graphics cards vs videl etc...
Ok ok, my first TT had a Nova, this TT had an albert card a while back ( HA! ) - My first Falcon ( or was it teh second? ) had an Eclipse and an ATI Rage. The ages between them all, is simply too vast to do a fair comparison, but the Nova card was definitely the superior option. Whether thats the case now, I simply cannot truthfully say.

As for better support, this I feel is still somethign that is debateable, but only to a point.

Speed.
Nope, you have taken this completely out of context. and no, you are right, I have not been able to compile a thing since using the Falcon, hence going back to my TT for the time being. However, when loading up MidiFiles for example in CuBase Audio, I can select it to tidy up teh display and its near to instant... Fantastic and this sort of stuff leaves the TT behind in the dark ages... loading up web pages in CAB, again, is very quick... VERY quick compared to teh TT and of course I can use 256 colours too as opposed to 16 so there is 2 pluses in one app for the Falcon and thats infinitely quicker, but in other stuff, such as the actual loading of CuBase Score on the TT and then loading the Music files themselves are massively quicker on the TT.
Booting up the Falcon is so so so long... The screen updates itself really poorly...Kind of as if its displaying about 2 FPS and nvdi isnt helping at all to boost the display... Ok, this is only when in full screen TOS and on booting which I rarely need

As for the bad luck bit, this is now all sorted I think?
I still get crashes many times, some Im half expecting and I am often trying to crash it, thinking that if I know what causes it to crash, then I can do what I can to avoid those things.
However, I am now at the point, where, all my apps will run the same whether Im in 060 or 030 mode.

So, those apps that crash on both 030 and 060 mode, are perhaps showing a more serious or a more hidden problem that has nothing to do with wether its on 030 or 060 or needs an FPU, and perhaps its my Falcon that has a problem.

So, at this time, I have no such compatibility issues that I can easily cure with simply flicking a switch.
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

User avatar
FatRakoon
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:27 am
Location: Behind the grassy knoll
Contact:

Postby FatRakoon » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:20 pm

alexh wrote:£200 quid, I'll even pop round and pick it up and take you out for a pint. Hows about that then? Cant say fairer than that can I? Cracking deal Eh? Eh? ;)


2 pints? Of mild?
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

User avatar
FatRakoon
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:27 am
Location: Behind the grassy knoll
Contact:

Postby FatRakoon » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:08 pm

Seriously guys...

Im not DEFINITELY selling it... Its more of a thought.

Im just not using the Falcon anywhere near as much as I hoped I would be doing.

Im just trying to justify spending as much as I have on it.

Admittedly, I have not toyed with VIDEL & the CT63... Maybe HTML Coding will be fun again at 800x600 ? I use Magic 6.2 as opposed to MiNT ( Although I have been promising myself that I will setup MiNT teh day I got the CT63, thats just not happened as I have never found the time ). And I know that I was able to run 800x600 in Magic a while back when I first toyed with it.

Im still in the process of fully reinstalling Magic too! - its in, and I got Jinne running sweet as a nut, but then when I tried putting my toys back in ( OLGA, Themes, Magics Libraries etc ) it failed and so I need to find out the culprit / sulprits on that.

CuBase now runs perfectly nicely in 060 Mode, and funnily enough, apparently I have to disable the CACHE to start it up and then Re-Enable it once its up and running but I dont. If I touch the cache at all, it crashes, so I leave that alone. Its on now so thats good... Disabled and it takes so long to start CAF up that I can go down and make a coffee and bring it up before its finished loading up ( WTF? )

Also, its developed an issue where I have to restart the Atari on cold boot because it will just hang... There is somethign about this on the CT6x site that may or may not need addressing.

Still some thigns need ironing out yes.

I love my TT. I have loved the TT since my first. On the other hand, I have hated the Falcon.

I think a lot of this is down to expectations.

Before I got my first TT, I knew that all it was was a very fast, STE and nothing more. Sure, I knew it could take more RAM and it had an internal HD but thats all. It was a big bonus to now have TTMED RES which, coming from 640x400 Mono was a massive boost.

The Falcon however, I was expecting to be able to do so, so, so much more and quite frankly I hever had that.
Sure, my First Falcon only had 1MB and at the time, I had a 4MB ST and lets be honest, its hard to go from 4MB to 1MB never mind that I had other features. I just hated it from day 1 and never had it long. My second was a 4MB job which was now useable and I got an eclipse PCI add-on for it and it was nice, but, could I get Magic to startup on it with the Rage card? NO!

I tried MiNT, but at the time, it was so slow compared to Magic, that I never could take it seriously and that too went to the great ebay in the sky.

Now, this one, I decided that third time must be lucky, I got it an FDI ( Admittedly, I decided before I even got it that I dont care about the speed and that I wanted it purely for CuBase Audio, so why am I being such a tosser to it now? and I got the CT63 and I still have plans for the PCI adapter & Ethernet even when Im also wondering about ebaying it????

Im just confused really.

I want to justify keeping it when I just love my TT
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

User avatar
alexh
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2581
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:52 pm
Location: UK - Oxford
Contact:

Postby alexh » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:32 pm

FatRakoon wrote:2 pints? Of mild?

Oo'er you drive a hard bargin, I'll have to think about it.

User avatar
030falcon030
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 749
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: North Somerset.england
Contact:

Postby 030falcon030 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:26 pm

Maybe I could find a place for that ct63 :D
I have always wanted to run quake and doom and all that lot on my falcon. You can even play video files with that
Im pretty sure you cant do any of that on a tt, even with any accelerators.
hmmm:/
I have an ste 4mb... with a 20mb powerdrive slimline and a cumana external fdd.
And a falcon 14mb w/ ct63 + ctpci

User avatar
FatRakoon
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:27 am
Location: Behind the grassy knoll
Contact:

Postby FatRakoon » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:55 pm

Cant mate sorry...

Im still waiting on Alexh's 2 pints of mild.

Seriosuly though.... Alexh said he would offer £200

I suppose thats a fair price ,but then, The CT63 on its own cost me that, then there is the RAM for it, which is another £32 and the FAlcon on itws own cost me more than that again, so already we are at £500 on just those, I also have an FDI and a FriendChip 8 Midi output adapter, so those are adding another couple of hundred onto what I paid for the kit, and thats not including the extra hardware changes I have made... SCSI Fix, Clock in a Socket etc... Its all closer to, if not more than £1000 that I have dished out for this Falcon.

So, I do thinnk that £200 is a fair price for a Falcon, there is absolutely no way in hell that I would let my Falcon go for anything less than £500 as I feel that even that is a bargain.

I am now down to only one Falcon, one TT and once Chandler gets the STF and Screen picked up, I will be down to one ST too

---

Anyone know what the TT is worth?

It has ...

10MB STRAM + 16MB TTRAM
4GB Internal SCSI

My Mods :-
PSU has been upgraded, and all capacitors have bee replaced with Japanese Quality components, Resistors have all been replaced too.
The coolings fans are replaced with blue Akasa fans and the battery is now 3xAAA.

This very TT used to belong to Joe Connor, and so if you need to ask who he is, then Im not going to waste my time answering that, so for me, thats a big deal.

My STE used to belong to Empire Stores, so I doubt thats a big deal, but hey... I can pimp it cant I?
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

User avatar
Desty
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1950
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:36 pm
Location: 53 21N 6 18W
Contact:

Postby Desty » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:40 pm

Hi FatRakoon,

I can't help but feel you're judging the Falcon in quite a poor light... it sounds like one of the upgrades left it in a nearly-working state.
After all the work and money you've put into it, it would be a real shame to give up now when, for all you know, one resistor needs to be snipped to get it working like a charm.

Unless you're running out of space, why not hang onto both and just take a break from the Falcon, then come back and fix it when you're up to it?
tá'n poc ar buile!

User avatar
FatRakoon
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:27 am
Location: Behind the grassy knoll
Contact:

Postby FatRakoon » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:16 pm

Ho ho ho... Oh no desty... I am no longer feelign a bit annoyed at the Falcon.

On the advise of many friends, here and elsewhere, I have persevered, and I have managed to trawl through the issues I had ( PAST TENSE - HAD ) and I am now well and truly on the other side of that hurdle.

The Falcon is now running sweeter than it ever has, faster than any Atari I have seen, and quite frankly, is a dream machine.

This was originally posted in late october... ( Cant be bothered at this time to check the date exactly but its late october anyway ) and I was miffed for sure.

Im sure that many would be... It is my 3rd Falcon, and every time I buy a Falcon, the thingis just a pile of cack and I can never justify the purchase when I have a TT.

Ok, I know people keep saying on 256 colours v 16 or X vs Y and so on, but the simple fact is, that the Falcon gave me nothing I cared about, that the TT could not.

When I was programming, I never needed anything more than Mono to be honest, but the the most sensible screen mode on the TT was TT MED ( 640x480x16 ) and even on the Falcon I was using this mode more than the 256 Coloour one simply because I found the 256 Colour mode too slow for screen updates.

Also I was mostly using CuBase. I upped from v2 to v3 when I got the TT due to v2 not liking the TT and again, why do I need colours when Im tryign to write music? - Also another sore point with CuBase is that I upped to score with the TT and when I got the Falcon I bought Audio... Ended up getting Audio with it too, ( No, I sold that off now ) and do you know what? - I never use the extra features of Audio... Not really. I have toyed for fun, but not taken it really seriously.

No, for what I do, the Falcon does nothing more for me, than the TT did, except the TT did its job and did it very well... The Falcon has issues all the time in one way or another, not only that, but even when I tried using 256 Colour modes, the screen updates were just too slow compared to the TTv - anyoen who has both a TT and a Falcon - just try it. The Falcon screen is a lot slower than the TT.

Anyway, this is at stock.

On the CT63, this has now changed massively... I can now move full windows across the screen without much flicker, 256Colour mode is now useable ,and things have really shone now. I have had to reinstall pretty much everything which has been fun to say the least because it has been so long since I installed half the stuff that I didnt have a clue as to how to edit the config files etc... Even SPIN took me a good hour to sort out FFS

But its been seriously good fun ( Well it wasnt while the Falcon was being a cow, but once it started to play nicely, it was all great )

Anyway, no, the Falcon is back in its place, the TT is under the desk, and will soon be undergoing a make-over ( Clean up etc ). I quit smoking in March last year and I see how yellowed the TT is so Im going to be tarting it up... If I cannot get it as white as I want, then I will be turning it black... Should be a laugh.

The only issue I now have with the Falcon is that the poor thing is kind of stripped down due to the ATX PSU and the CT63 and also the HD is just blu-taked to the FLoppy and the top of the case has somehow gone missing???

So, my next project on the Falcon must be some kind of case / housing unit.

But no, I no longer wish to sell her, but like I said... If the right figure came along... Its gone!
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably


Social Media

     

Return to “CT60 / CT63 Area”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests