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USB

Postby PeterS » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:19 am

Is anyone trying to get usb working on a Milan or Hades ? It would be so nice to be able to be able to plug in external drives, mem sticks, cameras etc.

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Re: USB

Postby Bluecher » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:17 am

Hi,

currently there are no divers available which run on the Milan. Only CT6x Falcons and FireBee have existing (and working!) drivers. How ever the sparemint code repository contains the current driver code (http://sparemint.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/freemint/sys/usb/src.km/). So the drivers could be extended to cover other Ataris as well.
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Re: USB

Postby wongck » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:51 am

AFAIK, working not on CT6x..... unless I am wrong please point me to it !!!
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Re: USB

Postby joska » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:24 pm

Bluecher wrote:currently there are no divers available which run on the Milan. Only CT6x Falcons and FireBee have existing (and working!) drivers.


Actually, only Falcon has a working driver. There is no USB driver for the FireBee yet.

The FireBee has working USB, but via FireTOS and not FreeMiNT.
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Re: USB

Postby Bluecher » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:15 pm

joska wrote:Actually, only Falcon has a working driver. There is no USB driver for the FireBee yet.

I though FireBee and Falcon CT6x both use USB supprt/drivers from TOS since the code shared between both systems. But I may confuse things here. I just wanted to try it on my Falcon ... but it I can't login ... may be I screwed it up during some testing this week. Will have to fix and try later ...

joska wrote:The FireBee has working USB, but via FireTOS and not FreeMiNT.

Absolutely right!!! And FireTOS based USB is working very well with the current FireBee Mint distribution.
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Re: USB

Postby PeterS » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:55 am

joska wrote:
Bluecher wrote:currently there are no divers available which run on the Milan. Only CT6x Falcons and FireBee have existing (and working!) drivers.


Actually, only Falcon has a working driver. There is no USB driver for the FireBee yet.

The FireBee has working USB, but via FireTOS and not FreeMiNT.


I assume the Falcon one is using a PCI card via CTpci or something like that. I don't have a Falcon so I am not sure about the set-up.
Is it using a modified TOS or a driver loaded from Auto or somewhere like that ?

If the Firebee is using FireTOS for USB then what is the Mint USB stuff for ? Is it just the higher level parts ?

Sorry for the stupid questions but I've not seen any of this stuff in action other than the short videos on youtube.

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Re: USB

Postby joska » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:22 am

PeterS wrote:If the Firebee is using FireTOS for USB then what is the Mint USB stuff for ? Is it just the higher level parts ?


FireTOS has support for USB mice, keyboards and mass storage devices. This is "inherited" by MiNT, but MiNT doesn't know anything about USB. To MiNT, the USB mouse and keyboard is just another IKBD mouse/keyboard, and the USB drives are simply removable drives made available through an XHDI interface.

The FreeMiNT USB stack OTOH is a complete stack with loadable drivers. So it's much more flexible and can support any kind of USB devices as long as someone writes a driver for it. But the only interface driver is for a ROM-port USB-card on the Falcon.
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Re: USB

Postby PeterS » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:41 pm

Ok, I had mistakenly thought that the hardware/driver situation was more advanced on the Falcon than the cartridge port set-up.

Firebee has hardware and with FireTOS can support mouse/keyboard/storage. Mint inherits this like any other hardware.

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Re: USB

Postby BoNuS » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:58 pm

Well having a USB port is one, writing the drivers to make all kind of different hardware work seems to
me a completly other. There are so many USB device's, can't believe you can alle connect that to the
USB for the Falcon ?!
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Re: USB

Postby simonsunnyboy » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:04 pm

You can connect all of them, the plug is normed. They simply won't be recognized by any drivers as of yet.
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Re: USB

Postby wongck » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:22 pm

If storage class should works, then you can already use usb memory stick and camera/video recorder to copy images.
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Re: USB

Postby PeterS » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:56 pm

Is the FreeMint USB stack dependent on FireTOS or is it standalone ?

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Re: USB

Postby joska » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:26 pm

They are completely independent. FreeMiNT's USB-stack does not need FireTOS in any way.
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Re: USB

Postby PeterS » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:26 pm

So is it just the pci level "driver" that is needed in order for the freemint stack to connect to a pci usb card ?

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Re: USB

Postby joska » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:20 pm

Correct.
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Re: USB

Postby PeterS » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:57 pm

I found some basic info about pci drivers; linux so I am not sure how relevant it is.

http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/~rjh2j/l2beta/software/pci.txt

I am not sure if this is the correct level in the hierarchy.

Does the OS go and find all the pci devices or does each loaded driver go and look for a suitable device in the pci bus ? That may be the difference between the old and new style that is referred to and I am not sure what happens on the Milan.

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Re: USB

Postby wongck » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:23 pm

PeterS wrote:I found some basic info about pci drivers; linux so I am not sure how relevant it is.
http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/~rjh2j/l2beta/software/pci.txt

I am not sure if this is the correct level in the hierarchy.


And here is the Atari port of PCIutils.
May be looking at the source code will tell you something.
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Re: USB

Postby PeterS » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:10 pm

I had a look at various bits of source code but it's all a bit low level, I am just trying to work out how much functionality the pci driver would have to provide in the current MiNT system.

Back in 2011 David suggested that Didier's work on FireTOS supports pci:

https://lists.lnxnt.org/mailman/private ... 00461.html
https://lists.lnxnt.org/mailman/private ... 00463.html

Later, Didier said that David's MiNT driver was the place to look.

I'm confused. I imagined that the pci driver would detect the card and
provide some low level functions for David's USB stuff for MiNT. Perhaps another .UCD is required. I don't know enough about MiNT internals. It would be easy to waste a lot of time developing something that isn't needed.

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Re: USB

Postby wongck » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:33 pm

PeterS wrote:I had a look at various bits of source code but it's all a bit low level, I am just trying to work out how much functionality the pci driver would have to provide in the current MiNT system.
Back in 2011 David suggested that Didier's work on FireTOS supports pci:


I think he has done that.
I can already read and program the realtek 8139 ethernet adapter via the PCI utils.
Only thing is there is a hardware issue.
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Re: USB

Postby PeterS » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:30 pm

This sheds a little more light:

http://free-electrons.com/doc/pci-drivers.pdf

Perhaps what is needed is an AUTO prg that provides whatever interfaces that the MiNT USB layer requires
so that the pci USB hardware can be accessed.

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Re: USB

Postby PeterS » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:49 pm

So two questions really:

1. what does the Milan (bios ?) do with regards to the pci slots when booting ?
2. what api does the mint usb code require to connect to the USB hardware ?

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Re: USB

Postby wongck » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:09 pm

Those API should be coded in David's driver.
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Re: USB

Postby PeterS » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:53 pm

I hardly ever see the Milan booting up but of course it must detect the pci cards because it lists some data about them and knows about the gfx and scsi cards.

A spec for the API would be nice rather than wading through loads of code and reverse engineering the interface. I had a look at the mint usb stuff, clever code but there aren't many comments about what each module does. Some hints would be good.

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Re: USB

Postby wongck » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:00 am

PeterS wrote:I hardly ever see the Milan booting up but of course it must detect the pci cards because it lists some data about them and knows about the gfx and scsi cards.

A spec for the API would be nice rather than wading through loads of code and reverse engineering the interface. I had a look at the mint usb stuff, clever code but there aren't many comments about what each module does. Some hints would be good.


I don't understand. There is no need to reverse engineer anything.

there is always pci-bios development API that you can use. Should be at the URL I posted there. It tells you how to detect and access the pci devices. PCI cards have IO areas where you exchange data, there are block of ram address. You access them via the pci-bios.

So you just need the pci card document to know where the IO address for it is located. Then know what each memory location means - its like register, to get or set some characteristics for the card. Transfer of huge amount of data wil be similar but instead of register, would a block of memory space.

For example the Realtek Ethernet doc includes examples how to set some characteristics and make TCP connections.

There are also Broadcom and RALink document. I think RALink have less document. Just hi DR Google for them.
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Re: USB

Postby PeterS » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:53 pm

I can't see any source code on the pciutils pages.

Looking through the Mint USB code is the wrong side of the interface which is why it would be time consuming to work through it all to work out what the API to the hardware is. Someone must know the specific parts that are relevant.

I haven't done much low level stuff for over 20 years.

Are all the Atari pci device drivers closed source ? The gfx card ones are, the Realtek one is, WinTV and SCSI are as well.


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