Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

All things related to the Hades and Milan clones

Moderators: Mug UK, moondog/.tSCc., [ProToS], lp, Moderator Team

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:04 pm

Exactly. I think we're all suffering LBUS problems.

I'll ping back here when I'm done and the results, but probably won't be until the weekend.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:19 pm

I'm slowly ploughing ahead.

Removed the PLCC socket....

photo.JPG


Awaiting a new one so I can replace it. But removal is by far the hardest part. Soldering a new one is trivial.

EDIT: And by the "hardest" I mean because it's a unique board and you don't want to destroy it. It actually isn't that hard to remove it.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
TheNameOfTheGame
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 834
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:57 pm
Location: Almost Heaven, West Virginia

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:35 pm

alanh wrote:I'm slowly ploughing ahead.

Removed the PLCC socket....

*image*

Awaiting a new one so I can replace it. But removal is by far the hardest part. Soldering a new one is trivial.

EDIT: And by the "hardest" I mean because it's a unique board and you don't want to destroy it. It actually isn't that hard to remove it.


Did you use a rework station to remove that? Seems pretty tricky if you did it by hand.

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:22 pm

Indeed, with the right tools it's easy. I wouldn't recommend this by hand given it's uniqueness.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:10 pm

New PLCC in, and LBUS chip returned to socket.

All happy, and my Hades is back up at 1GB and rock solid again.

I can turn off and on again pretty quickly and no problems. Woohoo!

photo.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
TheNameOfTheGame
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 834
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:57 pm
Location: Almost Heaven, West Virginia

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:15 pm

alanh wrote:New PLCC in, and LBUS chip returned to socket.

All happy, and my Hades is back up at 1GB and rock solid again.

I can turn off and on again pretty quickly and no problems. Woohoo!


Great News! So glad you got it working again! :cheers:

User avatar
lp
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2145
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:09 pm
Location: GFA Headquarters
Contact:

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby lp » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:25 pm

Impressive. Would appear Fredi's diagnosis was spot on. Wish I had the tools and skills. :)

User avatar
shoggoth
Nature
Nature
Posts: 787
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:21 am
Location: Halmstad, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby shoggoth » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:26 pm

I remember Ozk telling me about LBUS problems on his hades, and that he solved it by removing the socket and soldering the PLCC chip directly to the motherboard. Previous owner of my Hades has replaced the PLCC sockets at least two times as well, solving the LBUS problem afaik.

Personally I'll skip the socket altogether and solder the chip directly to the motherboard, I think. PLCC sockets are notoriously bad.
Ain't no space like PeP-space.

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:30 pm

Well, the old PLCC lasted 20 years, so I'm sure another will :-)
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
TTowner
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:53 am
Location: NR Birmingham. UK
Contact:

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby TTowner » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:31 pm

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/84-WAY-PLCC-S ... 43be49c36f
Plcc sockets x 4 from the uk.

I hope I have the right ones.

Alan. Thank you for your courage and re sparking some hope.
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:52 pm

They're not the right ones. You need SMD ones, not through-hole.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
TTowner
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:53 am
Location: NR Birmingham. UK
Contact:

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby TTowner » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:32 pm

Like a hungry savage I will hover over the gates of hell till they bow to my will, giving up the impious beast guarding them know as Hades..
once more to run amongst the mortals shall it be forced to do my bidding.

And about time!
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:28 pm

One other thing for Hades owners suffering.

I still had some issues even after resocketing the PLCC.

The LBUS chip legs can get a little oxidized. I've just ran a light sandpaper over the pins on the actual LBUS chip and then some new solder !

Which also might explain why soldering the chip directly to the board works as well due to legs not making good contact.
Last edited by alanh on Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
TTowner
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:53 am
Location: NR Birmingham. UK
Contact:

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby TTowner » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:57 pm

Ok, a brief update on the Hades.

I have had the board on a rework station and replaced the socket suggested.
Now the board won't power at all.

So. I guess as usual, I am the unlucky one.
Depressed about this as Alan did a similar thing and his machine worked after the work he did on his.
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:00 pm

The only thing to suggest is to check your soldering work. If it powered up before then it should at least do the same.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
TTowner
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:53 am
Location: NR Birmingham. UK
Contact:

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby TTowner » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:10 pm

Can I not just bring or send it to you and you fix it?
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:21 pm

Maybe. I wouldn't want to break it any further.

Do you have another PLCC socket for it ?

Can you take pictures of what it looks like now ?
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
bladeomega
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:38 pm

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby bladeomega » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:29 pm

Hello,

I take a look at the two pics and the solder pads from the socket wich are direct under the plastic from the socket itself. It seems thats not so easy to solder.
Is there a guide to solder this typ of socket?

Image

Image

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:53 pm

There's probably some youtube videos on how to solder PLCC SMD sockets.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:23 pm

Anyone wanting to sell their Hades whether it's broken or working, let me know.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:42 pm

Coincidence or not, I don't know, but I'm sad to report my Hades has died today.

Sounds a bit funny, although I'm not laughing, a day after I post to want other Hades broken or dead, and mine has gone today.

I'm not yet sure what's happened, but after a failed memory test at bootup, a power off, then power on and nothing is displayed.

Just had the board down in my workshop and taken off the PLCC's and soldered the Xilinx chips directly now, but still nothing. Measuring resistance between 5V and GND shows only 80ohms which sounds too low.

Off to do other stuff now, but I fear it's gone.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
lp
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2145
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:09 pm
Location: GFA Headquarters
Contact:

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby lp » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:28 pm

Sorry to hear that. My only advise would be if you find someone willing to part with a working board, best get in the car and go fetch it in person. I've learned the hard way, even the most careful packing does not seem to be enough for these old fragile boards.

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:33 pm

I used to have to flex the board before the resoldering work. But I fear that the replacement PLCC work may have only exaggerated some multilayer board problem. It'd be good to get some form of schematic to work things out.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

ovni73
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:43 am
Location: Saint Jean de Maurienne, France

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby ovni73 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:11 am

Hello All.
I had several issues with the MB of my hades 60, and sent it back tow times to Freddy to get it repaired.
But I think the main problem was the plastic screws used to fix the MB to the machine. This was too flexible and creating bad connections when inserting or removing PCI cards or simply reconnectiong the VGA cable. This was causing the bar-graph display. I always solved it by removing the removable components and carefully cleaning the pins with a soft cloth.
Two or three years ago, I removed the platic screws and used 'real' metal screws and bolts to fasten it correctly.
I also sprayed 'KF Contact' on the removable components and since (crossing my fingers) it's stable.
I read somewhere that the Hades 60 MB components were soldered using a 'cold soldering' technology that was not very reliable.
Regards.

alanh
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for Broken Hades

Postby alanh » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:42 am

I'll be in full flow debugging with it soon. Scope and all to work out what's wrong.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.


Social Media

     

Return to “Hades / Milan”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest