My Hades is now English

All things related to the Hades and Milan clones

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alanh
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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby alanh » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:32 pm

Damn. It appears the XC7354 is actually an EPLD. Just like a normal EPROM. But because it doesn't have a UV window it's write once.

And to top that off, I've only got the ABEL source and can't get the compiler anymore to get it into JEDEC format.

Anyone ?
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:59 pm

Did you ask Fredi what chips became unavailable, which caused him to stop making the machine? For some reason I'm thinking it was the chip used for the PCIMAIN, but I'm not sure since it was quite a while ago when that happened.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby alanh » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:09 pm

All of the Xilinx chips used on the Hades are no longer manufactured.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:20 pm

Yikes, well my memory was not so far off then. :cry: I would assume Fredi has all the software tools required to program them, but then it might be a slippery slope asking for that? I suppose the worst case scenario would be him refusing to do that, but on the other hand if the chips aren't made anymore its not that big a deal.

The other idea is, if you can find a chip, ship it to Fredi and let him program it.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby alanh » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:26 pm

Fredi no longer has the tools.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:34 pm

alanh wrote:Fredi no longer has the tools.


8O

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:51 pm

alanh wrote:Damn. It appears the XC7354 is actually an EPLD. Just like a normal EPROM. But because it doesn't have a UV window it's write once.
And to top that off, I've only got the ABEL source and can't get the compiler anymore to get it into JEDEC format.
Anyone ?

you can find 'OTP' versions of this ic still avalible on ebay.fr and de and it
its a hard ic to find a programmer for
maybe a dataman can do it
if you have a programmer and the code
its isnt an issue
the chips are easy to find if you use ebay mostly
and percist at it in ebay.hk etc {tip}
i have some pals in china can also help there will be a min order of maybe 5-10
but they are aok for small quanities ... {on ebay.. buy it now if you know what i mean sked...}
i have old abel tools from {an old eda board ...} from 1995 onward
so i can dig out a compiler for it
send me a copy please by pm.. and ill give the old cd's a turn

the precompile files header should give you the compiler details needed

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:04 am

simbo wrote:
alanh wrote:Damn. It appears the XC7354 is actually an EPLD. Just like a normal EPROM. But because it doesn't have a UV window it's write once.
And to top that off, I've only got the ABEL source and can't get the compiler anymore to get it into JEDEC format.
Anyone ?

you can find 'OTP' versions of this ic still avalible on ebay.fr and de and it
its a hard ic to find a programmer for
maybe a dataman can do it
if you have a programmer and the code
its isnt an issue
the chips are easy to find if you use ebay mostly
and percist at it in ebay.hk etc {tip}
i have some pals in china can also help there will be a min order of maybe 5-10
but they are aok for small quanities ... {on ebay.. buy it now if you know what i mean sked...}
i have old abel tools from {an old eda board ...} from 1995 onward
so i can dig out a compiler for it
send me a copy please by pm.. and ill give the old cd's a turn

the precompile files header should give you the compiler details needed




I am not sure where this is going but it sounds very interesting.
Fingers crosssed a good outcome may happen.
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:15 am

abel got too v5.1 i think
before it ram out of steem

and it was a parallel key dongle needed on a 286 dos 6 or windows 9x me nt etc machines
there was a site years ago undongle
i captured lots of his work on this dongle thing

it will work with later os also
i am sure i have a version of it to compile the source to usable flash parts...

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Re: My Hades

Postby TTowner » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:28 am

While there is activity going on. Can I ask some basic stuff.
Like, The IDE drive what ever the size, probably about 6 gig in mine.
How is this prepared from new to be installed. Are there any special requirements for prep?
Currently i am using ~HD driver 8.23.
I'm thinking that maybe if the drive has bad sectors on it for instance, it may stump the bootup.
Also, has anyone fitted a second IDE to this cable as a slave drive?
Can a partition be just made to boot on the first disk, then a dos partition & a mint (lnx) one be put on the slave drive & what benefit would there be to having it Dos partitioned?
I believe that HD driver will not complain about partition sizes, am I ok to make a 2 gig and 4 gig size for prgs?
What I would like to do is have a master drive of 2 gig for booting and storing desk apps and fonts Gdos, jinnee magix mint apps etc. Then a 4 gig for programs,tools, apps etc. Then a partition or two on a 4 gig cause I have a small scsuzzi drive for linux / mint & magic so as to keep it away from normal use.
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades

Postby TTowner » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:39 am

While looking for answers I came across this from you Lonny.
EMULATOR.PRG v1.30 R3E

Introduction:
This archive contains an updated Nova driver for the ATI Mach64.
It solves the cpu cache problems which prevent the driver from working if
the machine has an 040 or 060 cpu and the caches are on when it loads.
This always resulted in blank screen at boot. The work around was to
shut the cache off (MiNT.CNF) before the driver loaded and then flip it back
on (NAes.CNF) after the driver had setup the video mode. This of course slows
down the boot process.

Requirements:
An 040 or 060 equiped machine.

Installation:
Backup your old file!
Simply replace EMULATOR.PRG in your \auto folder.

I don't know what the default state of the cpu caches are when the Hades
boots or the Milan for that matter. However, I have Ozk's MMU tools installed
which runs before the Nova driver. Thus, in my case the cache is on before
the Nova driver is loaded.

My machine now boots at full speed and MiNT loads noticably faster.
Enjoy.
Now, as the hades is having problems with the ati card not initializing on boot sometimes, even before software has a chance to load. My thinking is that in some way the comments you have made are related to the startup of the hades. I'm not saying that software is the issue,because software is not loaded immediately on switch on. By related I mean the mmu cache Ati problem interacting with the ram & processor. Could this be related?
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:21 pm

That would be the ATI Mach64 driver update from me. If your are having problems before the video driver even loads, probably not. The symptom is a black screen, literally no picture at all. That's something you might consider changing if the machine is stable.

I do however recommend the mmu tool from ozk. The reason is this. The Hades has no ST RAM, all the ram is fast ram and some older programs are picky. The MMU tool splits the ram, and then sets up an area of ram to act like ST RAM. The arrangement of the ram then looks much more like a normal TT to all applications.

Attached is the mmu tool + the config file. Place them both in the auto folder, make sure the prg runs absolutely first before anything else.
This config assumes 128mb of ram, if you have some other ram size you have to adjust the config with an asci text editor like QED.
If you are not sure what you are doing, get the full package off the AssemSoft site and hopefully there's some docs with it.
My config was done by the author of the mmu tools (ozk) and I've not touched it in years. :)
Note the mmu tool causes a double boot, that is normal if you install it.
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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:58 pm

lp wrote:That would be the ATI Mach64 driver update from me. If your are having problems before the video driver even loads, probably not. The symptom is a black screen, literally no picture at all. That's something you might consider changing if the machine is stable.

I do however recommend the mmu tool from ozk. The reason is this. The Hades has no ST RAM, all the ram is fast ram and some older programs are picky. The MMU tool splits the ram, and then sets up an area of ram to act like ST RAM. The arrangement of the ram then looks much more like a normal TT to all applications.

Attached is the mmu tool + the config file. Place them both in the auto folder, make sure the prg runs absolutely first before anything else.
This config assumes 128mb of ram, if you have some other ram size you have to adjust the config with an asci text editor like QED.
If you are not sure what you are doing, get the full package off the AssemSoft site and hopefully there's some docs with it.
My config was done by the author of the mmu tools (ozk) and I've not touched it in years. :)
Note the mmu tool causes a double boot, that is normal if you install it.



Thank you for this information and file.
I intend to try anything to get a stable machine.
Any help offered is very much appreciated.
I already have mentioned that I intend to max the memory on the hades. But initially I will work with the advice you gave here Lonny. I will fit only 128 meg of ram untill a stable machine can be verified.
Thanks again.
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby alanh » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:30 pm

TTowner,

Just had an interesting episode putting my Hades back together.

Try disconnecting the IDE cables from your hard drives. So either no drives are connected or you pull it from the mainboard.

See if that helps.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby alanh » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:30 pm

Also, Just sent simbo the RAMROM20.ABL files to see if he can compile.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:39 am

rather unfortunate i cant get it as the board filtered it out your email
rename it too .zip and send
ill change the extenssion
would be nice to know if its v4 or v5
i installed both just incase
ill get a the right files out of its code for sure!!
no probs this is my special field ... like the older finite stuff on hdl

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:44 pm

Just to update everyone.

It would seem that the fault on my Hades is not as uncommon as first asumed.

Lonny is experiencing similar issues with his machine..


Simbo, How much progress have you made with your side of things?
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:37 am

i have no sign of the correct compiler tools yet
still asking around seems hard to find as the package used a dongle and cost lots and lots in these days gone

not sure how many people have it it was dos based

ill keep looking for a solution
and i will later on send a nice email to lattice and see if they can compile the abl to a jed for us
you never know sometimes these people are quite helpfull
even if they know a company that can do this i can ask for help
further reading on google shows me this post
for Foundation 1.3 and the older 73xx family
'I believe the 9500 family is pin comptible. Perhaps you should switch to that?
It is readily available and supported in the current tools. '

translating the code is quite easy to do
its quite a small code block just a few lines







as for your machines problems
did you remove the blob of solder ??? if not
you will have problems as its shorting over two pins on one of its i/o sets
defo is a problem you need to fix
carefully push it in using a pin and it will fall out ...

i think there is nothing wrong with anything else
that blob of solder is the issue for sure and would cause intermittent problems
right around the machine as that chip controls all the timings of memory and periferal hardware
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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:47 pm

The Blob on the board is not solder its just a bit of scum dirt and has beemn removed....
Ok, in an attempt ot find a way to compile the chip I am posting links to things I have found that could be nothing but may show some alternative directions to look.
Starting here http://users.erols.com/aaps/x84lab/V2F.html
http://forums.xilinx.com/
There may be a path to follow here to someone who might be able to assist http://www.cs.washington.edu/lab/facilities/hwlab/pages/xilintps.htm
Whats this http://www.hackchina.com/en/cont/178569
http://www.impulseaccelerated.com/?_kk=fpga%20compiler&_kt=6dfcb01e-85f5-4d18-a6c6-5576bf689913&gclid=CJ2xodLn7qYCFRIRfAodmgeHFQ
This looks like something that would do some compiling http://www.icewalkers.com/Linux/Software/57450/Ver.html
A PDF about Abel http://www.kiv.zcu.cz/~vavricka/LS/ABEL_Doc/XABEL.PDF
Another PDF http://www.atmel.org/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc3303.pdf

And the piece de resistance


The Actual software or parts of it ftp://63.241.181.136/pub/swhelp/foundation/00_index.htm
http://www1.pldworld.com/@xilinx/html/techtool/webpack/we_detail.htm
I think this is available if anyone can access http://evodl.com/dl/abel+macroeconomics+5th+edition+solutions.html

A file link but how to get at it I do not know http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~thayes/ABEL_download/
Here is a forum post, If this helps you could probe this guy for help http://www.edaboard.com/thread18048.html & http://www.edaboard.com/thread93463.html

A company that designs http://www.coridiumcorp.com/ironw/index.html

http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~ese171/abel/abel_primer.html
3rd party software http://www10.edacafe.com/book/ASIC/CH08/CH08.6.php
http://www.fpga4fun.com/FPGAsoftware1.html
http://www.iol.ie/~dmurray/Prism/Download_Language.htmlA compiler with Help files
Last edited by TTowner on Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:00 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:33 pm

TTowner wrote:Just to update everyone.

It would seem that the fault on my Hades is not as uncommon as first asumed.

Lonny is experiencing similar issues with his machine..


My machine, unlike Tony's has not been moved in years, kept in a non-smoking environment all its life, does not have broken simm sockets or any other board damage. About last week or so it started to not boot, freezing at various points in the boot stage. A second reboot would seem to cure it and the machine will run fine for many hours. The HD also passes a sector test, and the PSU voltages all look fine under load. Then about 5 days later I got the mysterious bar-graph looking screen as well. What a shock that was. My theory is this. My machine has exceed the life expectancy of the DALLAS RTC (10 years) and so I think the battery is on the verge of failure. I have a new RTC clock chip (12887+) coming from Digi-Key in 3 to 5 business days.

I don't know if a faulty battery can cause this behavior or not in Hades. Its not a real Atari persay, perhaps possible do to the way it was cloned it might cause problems, who knows. If replacing it cures it, its a cheap fix.
Last edited by lp on Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:47 pm

a faulty "dead" cell on these non volitile ram can cause issues on any machine that uses them

as they store config data both preset and test set

a dumb bios system infact

and they have storage areas for both config and 'preform data'

if the motherboard has a dodge nvram battery chances are its booting inside a different config
from what it analyses its self too be
ie its own test data results arent stored
so it will no do second boot init and revert back to first boot and test and store criteria
fine tony atlast thanks skum is better

i would brush the whole board with a fine earthed brass bristle brush
you can get these brushes from clock restore suppliers like easterns or cocks in london
they have a .2mm strandl dia and 3" lenght for getting scum off boards and around ic pins
safely
and i see lots of solders and fluxes on your board
and as pointed out daft simm sockets
{i am one to talk i placed 2 simm sockets the wrong way around on 2 TT magnum boards then sent them out without checking again fek... however caught it so... no errors made in hardware}

the ds1287 has no equivelent made

youll need to add a battery to existing ... only issue i see
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blo ... y-chip.htm

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:04 pm

A problem with the Dalas clock chip battery.

A hack to fix is here.
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2009-10-10-renovating-a-dallas-battery-chip.htm
Not a prety looking hack but apparently it works..
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:06 am

simbo wrote:the ds1287 has no equivelent made


You sure about that? The data sheet for the ds12887 says it replaces the ds1287. The first line from the data sheet:
The DS12885, DS12887, and DS12C887 real-time clocks (RTCs) are designed to be direct replacements for the DS1285 and DS1287.

However its not so important, since the Hades has the newer DS12887, and the DS12887+ is just some lead free version.

http://dev-docs.atariforge.org/files/DS12887.pdf

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:57 pm

fine on the clock what i ment is it has no real cure to the battery issue to replace the ic

its better to mount a cell ontop
however ugly it is a button cell and holder from a pc is good
many old pcb around to get the bits at 0 cost


ok on recompiling the abl to jedec

i think i have a pal that can do this however he wont be around till later tonight
he may have dug out his copy by now of the right tools and he has the dongle
but live's in belgum so few hrs ill know

just got hold of him

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:20 pm

simbo wrote:fine on the clock what i ment is it has no real cure to the battery issue to replace the ic

its better to mount a cell ontop
however ugly it is a button cell and holder from a pc is good
many old pcb around to get the bits at 0 cost


Maybe you still have not read the data sheet. The ds12887+ contains a battery. If I have to yank the clock/battery and hack it up, find another battery holder, glue that to the chip, find another battery, then solder on it, then its much easier to buy a new clock/battery chip if its still available. Digi-Key seems to have plenty in stock. Only cost $17 total and I don't have old PCs laying around to rape for parts. Anyway $17 versus $0 isn't enough to bother with all that hassle in my opinion.

Again, from the data sheet: The DS12887 integrates a quartz crystal and lithium energy source into a 24-pin encapsulated DIP package.


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