My Hades is now English

All things related to the Hades and Milan clones

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simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:31 pm

what ever its defo a bus error

the screen shows cpu cycles and video works and therefore pci and mmu / dma
good idea though

however the TT030 tos and the hades tos images are very the same
just about 80 or so bytes are different
not much space for added accepts like this to be added

picture of hades
http://www.medusacomputer.com/thes-hades.html

maybe a short email to fredi is best here
and send to him for diag and or repair

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:00 pm

perhaps if the makers released some detail of there computers

schematics , diag routines on eprom images {like tos}
{as the ataris used it maybe diag eproms can be used in place of system roms for a similar purpose etc}

and some info whats going on

many of these clones exist and the more info the better

in german

spezifizieren Sie uns schematisches auch mehr Info Deutschland auf englisch oder ich lese Deutschen und sehe nicht diese Bemühung

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:54 pm

Not much progress i'm afraid.

German tos is correctly fitted back in it.
The mouse is serial and standard. the video card has been removed and an identical newer one was bought and fitted.
Both this and the old one now are not displaying anythin but black screen. As if it is not working at all.
Pushed all the socketed chips firmly back in their socets on the MB. No effect.
Near the pci socket far left is a loosely socketed 15khz crystal. socteted and easily removeable. So I made sure it was properly seated.
Ram memory is still the same config as when I first got the machine. Although I have ordered 2x128 fpm simms to try.
Sending this back to Medusa is an option but I have no cash to do this at this time. Messing about poking inside is dangerous as not knowing much about it I don't want to make things worse.
Any simple things that I can try will be tried.
But reluctant to do surgery on it.
Any further ideas will be noted and I will keep up the progress reports. :contract:
Thanks people.
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:51 pm

adding
he still sells complete systems for 1666 quid
for a 040 adding another few {quite a few } quid makes an 060 system
i would
unplug the board
take the pcb out its case
mount it on a book add the graphics card
and take some photos for us please
i for one fix many machines just looking at macro mode pictures
atleast a few

there is no 0 pictures like this online

top and bottom of the pcb
ive had these faults turn out to be a trapped screw below the pcb

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby wongck » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:27 pm

If he's still selling it, then it's a good chance that he will still repair it.
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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby alanh » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:10 pm

TTowner wrote:The problems noted so far & prior to the Barcode thing are the mouse does not recognise and to get it to do so I have had to reboot several times, eventually the mouse worked but then I got error codes across the screen. Sometimes when moving the mouse, somtimes when accessing the floppy,or when resizing the windowed screen open file stuff on the desktop.
More often than not though it would take 20 or so attempts at bootup b4 the mouse / keyboard would be useable.
Often the machine would just hang.
This happened a lot even prior to the tos being swapped to English.


Hi TTowner,

I also have a Hades with exactly the same problems as you. More often than not it will refuse to boot, and I've seen for the first time the barcodes :-)

If I limit my memory to the first two simm slots it seems to help a lot, so I may try resoldering the SIMM connections this weekend.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby Poobah » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:21 pm

alanh wrote:
TTowner wrote:The problems noted so far & prior to the Barcode thing are the mouse does not recognise and to get it to do so I have had to reboot several times, eventually the mouse worked but then I got error codes across the screen. Sometimes when moving the mouse, somtimes when accessing the floppy,or when resizing the windowed screen open file stuff on the desktop.
More often than not though it would take 20 or so attempts at bootup b4 the mouse / keyboard would be useable.
Often the machine would just hang.
This happened a lot even prior to the tos being swapped to English.


Hi TTowner,

I also have a Hades with exactly the same problems as you. More often than not it will refuse to boot, and I've seen for the first time the barcodes :-)

If I limit my memory to the first two simm slots it seems to help a lot, so I may try resoldering the SIMM connections this weekend.


Possibility there, the simm sockets dont seem to be of particularly good quality (The ones on my Hades are pretty sad)

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby wongck » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:02 am

IIRC, but may be not so related, that SIMM 30pins must be used in pairs. while those of 72 pins need not.
This has something to do with the width of the bus.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63+CTPCI_ATI_RTL8139 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:00 am

wongck wrote:If he's still selling it, then it's a good chance that he will still repair it.


Fredi has not sold a Hades in quite some time. However, he may still be able to fix it. Only way to know is to contact him and ask. :wink:

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby alanh » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:40 am

Just to let folks know that Fredi no longer repairs Hades machines. Oh dear. We're on our own :-(
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:55 pm

still think the video bios is overwritten or corrupted site and texts warn for this
can happed by some software and driver configs from what i read... of the german {not my best language ...}

may need a flashed chip soldered or plugged into plcc socket for it

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby alanh » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:07 pm

Nah, I don't think so.

It feels like it's either a dodgy capacitor or a dry solder joint.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:30 pm

hum possible a chip has failed

dry solder joint not sure

seems once it ran at full speed it failed

points to bus controllers mmu etc

the video card displays bar codes and nothing more
you cant tell without plugging in a address and data monitor riser card
buffer ic's and led's
same as someone needs to make for the falcon and TT even the st cart models needs a cart that monitors using led's
the post doesnt give all lines {low level control } but this can be taken in st's from the shifter

monitor bus grant signals and dtack

and map what ic isnt giving or getting the bus

video bios but + dma &= mpu first == dma second += memory mmu last then tos{bios boot etc} loads


so it could be bios error report but i think its the dma chip ....

as a failed dma chip will make the video display this way....

mpu black screen other controllers garbage dma is the issue here

i am sure fredi will repair it if he has the right motivation

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby alanh » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:18 am

The Hades has a PCI video card, and the chips are all FPGA so it's not an easy fix if the chips are foobar. Which I doubt.

I've just swapped my PSU, and it's booting up more solidly every power on now. The only thing left is that if I install more than 512MB of RAM the bootup memory test gets an Illegal instruction error regardless of what SIMMs I install. So I know it's not the SIMMs.

Just wondering if it's actually possible to install more than 512MB in a Hades, as I'm sure I've seen it can take 1024MB.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:00 am

According to the documentation its suppose to be able to handle 1gb of ram. I do know EDO support was added at a later date, which makes me wonder if the ram capacity was bumped up too. If that was the case, then the revision of the chip-set becomes a factor.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby alanh » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:39 am

It's funny. I've got 4 x 128MB SIMMs installed and it works fine. I did install an additional 32MB SIMM for testing and it seemed to be o.k. with that and recognized 557056 bytes. But if I install 768MB (two more 128MB), then the machine will refuse to boot or crash with the illegal instruction at the very start of the memory test.

So yes, I've heard about something wrong with the RAMROM controller, and I'm also thinking whether I've got a problematic one.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:52 am

In one of the docs is a detailed explanation of the valid simm arrangements, but its all in German. I have two 64mb simms in mine that Fredi sent me along with the board. I have four 128mb simms laying around that I bought off ebay, but never installed. To be honest I never ran out of ram so I never bothered with it.

Maybe its just picky. You can find the info in this HYPertext: http://dev-docs.atariforge.org/files/hadesfaq.hyp

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby alanh » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:20 am

Thanks for the file. It'd be nice to convert that to PDF :-)
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:38 pm

Well the discussion is evolving into a great diags one.

Captain Atari. Here I have the latest for you and others.


When I aquired 2x128 meg simms I made sure that they were 128x36 fpm sims.
The machine will take 1gig of ram. starting at socket 1 through a process of resetting my machine to when I first got it, the following happened.


The machine booted. The Barcodes dissapeared and the machine went to the desktop.
The replacement video card was then redundent at this time & not used.
For a period of 20 mins the machine worked fine.
On boot the mem check routine was allowed to run and a total of 240k plus mem was found to be working.
Boot was fast and took me by supprise.
The machine however did not allow for keyboard or mouse useage, resultingf in a further reboot.
After several attempts, the mouse & keyboard initialized and allowed function on the desktop.

Eliminated from the problem therefore is the Video card.
By the way. I bought an identical card as mentioned earlier. The rom on the card needs to be flashed to suit the Hades, Standard cards will not boot without modified rom as far as I know.

Mentioning the memory and dma is a fair place to consider. This machine like all others is OLD. Sockets expand and connections fail. The chance that this is the case is more than 70%.
The sim sockets are also suss as the retaining clips on the edges are dammaged and some of the sims do not sit vertical.
The 6 sims initially installed need to be pressed and secured by secondary means to ensure that they sit and stay.
Taking them out I tried just one 128 meg sim....No boot. The sim config has something to do with the accepted config of memory. No use putting in 128 meg x 32 if the machine takes x 24 or 36 or some other config as that will incurr erros.
Am I right?
Well to further confound the situation the machine has given up again and is showing a black screen now, If left for a while it seems this then dissapears as a problem, but while it is showing the kind of struggle to boot it may take 6 or so attempts to make a white HADES MEDUSA screen appear.
Even then, the keyboard does not work.
At first I thought that the socketed rom chip may need a jiggle. But after many times of similar boot attempts with no keyboard I doubt it is that. It seems now that the thinking is the socketed chips or mmu or dma or the clock circuit is a big contender for issues.

A replacement set of socket chips would be usefull to get my hands on. At least as spares.
One other thing..
A concise list of chip no's and their socket positions listed from all hades users would I think be a good place to work from. As not all these chips were standard in all machines.
I will get the camera out shortly and try to get macro views of the main board posted for all to see.
Please, those with Hades, stay with this. It could be our only source of help and problem solving.


Thanks people.
More as it unfolds.
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:43 pm

Just to assure you all, the 128 meg was fitted to my TT and showed as fine. But with the limit on displayable mem on the boot up, restriction of the mem counter within Tos, the ram shown was about 980000000 or so,
Perhaps someone can steal the counter from the hades rom and fix this?
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:51 pm

Poobah wrote:
alanh wrote:
TTowner wrote:The problems noted so far & prior to the Barcode thing are the mouse does not recognise and to get it to do so I have had to reboot several times, eventually the mouse worked but then I got error codes across the screen. Sometimes when moving the mouse, somtimes when accessing the floppy,or when resizing the windowed screen open file stuff on the desktop.
More often than not though it would take 20 or so attempts at bootup b4 the mouse / keyboard would be useable.
Often the machine would just hang.
This happened a lot even prior to the tos being swapped to English.


Hi TTowner,

I also have a Hades with exactly the same problems as you. More often than not it will refuse to boot, and I've seen for the first time the barcodes :-)

If I limit my memory to the first two simm slots it seems to help a lot, so I may try resoldering the SIMM connections this weekend.


Possibility there, the simm sockets dont seem to be of particularly good quality (The ones on my Hades are pretty sad)

MMU is likely a problem along with the sim sockets, dammage to these is all but fatal for the machine. I for one would NOT like to desolder them. NO WAY!
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:57 pm

alanh wrote:It's funny. I've got 4 x 128MB SIMMs installed and it works fine. I did install an additional 32MB SIMM for testing and it seemed to be o.k. with that and recognized 557056 bytes. But if I install 768MB (two more 128MB), then the machine will refuse to boot or crash with the illegal instruction at the very start of the memory test.

So yes, I've heard about something wrong with the RAMROM controller, and I'm also thinking whether I've got a problematic one.


This sounds like a good place to dig further into.
Ram faults and controllers aere worthy of investigation are they not. If controller is snaffu then nowt will work.
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:33 pm

TTowner wrote:Eliminated from the problem therefore is the Video card.
By the way. I bought an identical card as mentioned earlier. The rom on the card needs to be flashed to suit the Hades, Standard cards will not boot without modified rom as far as I know.


Only one video card requires modification to function properly on the Hades and that is the ATI Rage Pro. Fredi made some custom bios chip that must be swapped on the video card itself. It also requires special NVDI drivers supplied by Fredi. Fredi shipped me this video card when I bought my Hades and I found it to be unreliable in certain modes. I would see flashing pixels and such on the desktop as I moved the mouse around. I don't have it anymore, ended up giving it away after I gave up trying to solve it.

However an ATI Mach 64 (4mb) will work 'as is'. Trust me on this, I bought one off ebay and just plugged it in and tada. In my opinion its the most reliable/compatible card out there for the Hades. The video mode generator works with the ATI Mach 64, so one can create custom video modes, assuming your monitor can handle it of course.

Certain ET6000 cards also work out of the box, but the video mode generator don't support it, and you are stuck with the canned modes on the install disk.

Unfortunately I did not have a camera when I bought my Hades or I'd have an extensive image gallery. Originally I received only the board, ram, and video card from Fredi and assembled it myself. I am very reluctant to pop the thing open these days. :wink:

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:05 pm

lp wrote:
TTowner wrote:Eliminated from the problem therefore is the Video card.
By the way. I bought an identical card as mentioned earlier. The rom on the card needs to be flashed to suit the Hades, Standard cards will not boot without modified rom as far as I know.


Only one video card requires modification to function properly on the Hades and that is the ATI Rage Pro. Fredi made some custom bios chip that must be swapped on the video card itself. It also requires special NVDI drivers supplied by Fredi. Fredi shipped me this video card when I bought my Hades and I found it to be unreliable in certain modes. I would see flashing pixels and such on the desktop as I moved the mouse around. I don't have it anymore, ended up giving it away after I gave up trying to solve it.

However an ATI Mach 64 (4mb) will work 'as is'. Trust me on this, I bought one off ebay and just plugged it in and tada. In my opinion its the most reliable/compatible card out there for the Hades. The video mode generator works with the ATI Mach 64, so one can create custom video modes, assuming your monitor can handle it of course.

Certain ET6000 cards also work out of the box, but the video mode generator don't support it, and you are stuck with the canned modes on the install disk.

Unfortunately I did not have a camera when I bought my Hades or I'd have an extensive image gallery. Originally I received only the board, ram, and video card from Fredi and assembled it myself. I am very reluctant to pop the thing open these days. :wink:




Just for interest sake. can you look and see if your card resembles the one I am using. Pc is on page 1 of this thread. If not. A pic of yours would be usefull.
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:01 pm

TTowner wrote:Just for interest sake. can you look and see if your card resembles the one I am using. Pc is on page 1 of this thread. If not. A pic of yours would be usefull.


Yes, that looks like my ATI Mach 64. Mine also has the small 2mb memory board added.


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