My Hades is now English

All things related to the Hades and Milan clones

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simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:54 pm

i dont see your point

ive read the datasheet and actualy used these ic for designs of my own in the past

ive even written a dll model for the ds1273 and others {the whole family} in proteus vsm thats used all over the place

i have a good rapor with dallas if i ask for 100 samples a guy appears next day on a motorcycle with the parts

then i build a base class for whole familys at a time

so i think i did study the datasheet

what i said is simple

why replace a good part with a part that will again fail ????

there is some logic here i can demonstrate

do{
days = (5*365);
i=(rand + 1825);
if (i >=(1825+(days))) printf("your battery is flat");
}while(1);

so after 10 years of use {not up time } abs max
it dies and mostly these ic's have been already ticking for a year before you get them

fix the battery to be external and dont bother the nvram ic

there is only ONE mountain of quarts and its getting thinner...

then our ic's CAN NO LONGER be made....except in space

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lp
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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:13 pm

Have you ever seen a Hades? I must disagree, you miss the point. The RTC is in a socket unlike that Falcon, pop it out, pop in a new one. No soldering required, bam its done. Maybe all of 1 minutes worth of work and its good for another 10 years, if the motherboard even lasts that long. Hooray for Fredi for using a socket at that location.

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:26 pm

yes yes yes

i will send a pm to tony i can send him a fresh chip if needed

i have a few spares need used
before the battery runs out

still think its better to use the same ic and add a new battery

i just hate throwing away a good chip thats takes a few hours to make
its like murder... i am just sensitive about it m8

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:32 pm

In the states you can easily blow over $17 at the cinema if you take the kids and buy some treats, so if I don't have to solder, all the better. No trip to the movies this week. :lol: It does seem a silly design, but that's the chip Fredi selected. I'm just glad they still make suitable replacements, otherwise I would be doing some soldering.

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:05 am

its a hard ic to replace with eeproms as its used by the system has to accessable quite quick
only sensible thing is a clock ic and a eeprom and external time sync

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TTowner
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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:38 pm

It would seem that after Lonny & I replaced the NVram we are now both getting nowhere fast with problems. He tells me his Hades is going wampy also.
This looks like a major failiure of some vital item on the board.

We have brainstormed some ideas & Lonny is going to replace his PSU in the hope that a failing power supply may be causing problems and replacing with a new PSU will treat the illness.

Currently, his machine is fast catching up with mine. Not looking good at all.
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:51 pm

sounds like pcb layer problems with thru;s

best invest

in a coldfire ... http://www.medusacomputer.com/coldari.html

as i think the pcb is peeling ....! cheep pcb i think or low quality control

there is no reason for chip failure...!

falcon rev A,B suffers so does TT rev B,-F ste rev d- mega ste rev c-

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lp
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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:04 pm

Well the clock chip worked, it was the right one, only took a minute to change. That needed to be said.

However the up-time on my hades was growing shorter and shorter, now its lucky if it runs 5 minutes if it it even boots at all. I was doing a lot of power on/off cycling whilst testing different speed CF cards and I suspect I accelerated the problem. It's the original PSU, its also over 10 years old and its a prime candidate for going bad. I'll know more when I swap it out.

FYI, I reached 5930 kb/sec with an Ultra II CF card on the IDE bus. That's an improvement over the bog standard CF card I tried earlier. (5500 kb/sec) :)

As for the firebee, no MiNT no joy. Its not really an option at this stage. Why sit in single tasking and waste 266mhz? :wink:

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby wongck » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:13 am

lp wrote:As for the firebee, no MiNT no joy. Its not really an option at this stage. Why sit in single tasking and waste 266mhz? :wink:


At least Jo is looking at that, so it's being worked at.
Should be working in no time but in Atari time frame which may means a year.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63+CTPCI ATI R7500 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD EtherNEC/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

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lp
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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:51 am

Well I don't know who exactly is working on MiNT for the firebee, but its on the todo list. It will get done I'm sure. When it is, I'll be wanting one. :wink:

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:02 pm

lp wrote:Well I don't know who exactly is working on MiNT for the firebee, but its on the todo list. It will get done I'm sure. When it is, I'll be wanting one. :wink:



reading other pages about it its most of the team associated with the hades etc..

i think it wont take long atall if more people order one and help/show interest

now i have a plan for the hades thats faulty
if you cant bootup try a hair drier

this may sound daft but there is method

after heating gently does it boot???
if not use freezer spray to get it to boot
freeze one ic at a time
if it does boot with the hair drier
once its up and running use some freezer spray
not too liberal on one ic at a time
and use the reset button
where it stops resetting is the faulty ic
problem found
now you just need to change that ic...
atleast this method idents that the mainboard chipset or a single ic has thermal issues


you should also measure the reset vector is large enough to fully reset the chipset at poweron
you can test the power on reset by holding in the reset button
and apply power after a second let it go
if it boots the power on reset circuit has capacitor problems
as its not providing enough reset delay...

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:28 pm

I put in a new PSU, and it straightened right up, but I forgot to reconnect the IDE. Soon as I do its all wonky again. The problem appears to be in the IDE bus itself. I'm now booting from the SCSI chain with the IDE yanked and shut off in HD Driver. Now the machine appears stable.

Yes, I've tried at least 4 drives, 2 real ones, and 2 IDE->CF adapters with new cables and new CF (sandisk) cards.

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:05 pm

sounds like a bad setting in hddriver.sys resident

what version are you using 8.3???

you should try an earlier version also

if its the case the earlier version works as expected
you should report the problem on the hddriver site forum
perhaps youll get some more help there ,...

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:07 pm

simbo wrote:sounds like a bad setting in hddriver.sys resident

what version are you using 8.3???

you should try an earlier version also

if its the case the earlier version works as expected
you should report the problem on the hddriver site forum
perhaps youll get some more help there ,...


It suddenly goes flaky with the same version that worked perfectly for 10 years. The recommended version for the Hades in fact. It won't even start up, HD Driver (any version, even the latest) does not even load half the time. Let me reiterate what Tony says, you power it up and instantly get a garbled screen or no display or it freezes before the memory test. Besides the author of HD Driver don't officially support the Hades (see note on his site) and has no Hades (read the forum) to even test it on. I don't think he would appreciate inaccurate bug reports on his forum either. The problem is not HD Driver. The problem is on my motherboard.

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:29 pm

sounds like a missing wait state somewhere,,,

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:28 am

simbo wrote:sounds like a missing wait state somewhere,,,


Perhaps. I don't have a schematic so I'm not sure what and where to look exactly. I've disabled the IDE bus scanning in HD Driver and removed the IDE drive and all seems ok. The machine was running about 6 hours today and I redid the partitions and set it up to boot off a CF card on the SCSI bus. It didn't do anything flaky at all the whole time. Now maybe I can get back to coding. :wink:

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:49 pm

nice to know your up and running again
hope tonys is a similar issue

i can only imaging its something memory related to DMA as the DMA is resposible for hdd and some
so i think its a buss collision going on

still i think youve found a solution not a great one
but one that works ...

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:59 pm

Well I'll have to get used to SCSI transfer speeds like an older TT030. That's better than nothing. We are trying to get the schematic so maybe one day I can further investigate it properly.

In the meantime I will try faster CF cards. Every time I try a better rated card, my transfer speed goes up a little. It all helps. :wink:

Unfortunately it seems Tony has more serious issues. I think he is going to try a different PSU next, since its used he really don't know how much mileage it has on it.

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:37 pm

its just a pitty
i think personaly as i always have done 70 or 90ns roms are far too fast for some mpu / bus / memory

you may think rubbish!!!
but i know that sometimes the slope of a bit transfer is what triggers the next address
if it uses a procumalative mmu then it will be ..
as it takes a down slope to move the address register in a timely manner
and as the slope will be different in 70 or less ns roms
its not a good idea to push it here
better to stick to what madusa recomend to use 100ns -10 types
and no faster or expect problems
this is what i was told in a round about way,... when i asked
also the way the rom set it programmed
either complete the roms with 0XFF or dont program the spare slack
i recomend to program with dont complete the roms
ie leave the end blank
otherwise data overflow occurs
on one bit block atleast... per rom
well i would have used 100ns eproms
to be sure
sometimes you need the hysteric nature of tos loading.
. to overcome a problem further up the bus
you may find using a rom image set that has these FF's at the end wont work
as it has no tail ender and too fast a transition slope
just my 25 years in the trade speeking... but what do i know
it would act as if there was a missing wait state on dma
as there is a wait state introduced in the tos load cycle

if your up for a little test

i still have the english and german roms set
if i could flash a set for you
on 90ns eproms using the correct rules
and chilling the eproms first to -3deg as should be done
i think you may find a cure, i use a STAG programmer serial driven buffered
can do 10 ic's at a time from a master set or 11 from serial... blank test and program
£3000 in its time
much better than some of the bit bang types avalible .... from china etc... {rubbish but kind of work}
so has no issues as its well debugged for sure... from the 80's
and the program too spec... fully ..

for 060 madusa says 90ns for 040 100ns

there must be a reason why...??

pm me your address
if they dont cure it well you have a spare set of roms
if it does i expect a pint!! :cheers:

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:27 pm

Is that offer for Tony? I'm not sure who you are directing that to.

Personally I think Tony should put the original ROM set back in as it was shipped to him and leave it like that until the real issue is found. So what if its German, it once worked fine with that ROM set. Then after its fixed try and change the ROM set. :wink:

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:49 pm

well i know tony has an 060 mpu
and i know i was told by the maker use 90 or 100ns eproms

this is what i know i try my best too help
im not sure you changed mpu or drivers!!!!?
as driver limits can relate too impose another regiem to roms loading ...
ie tos waits for drives etc

once you cure a place or knot in code you free up mips
i think ill send a set of 90ns 010 eproms too you both
if it works we all win a fish

if not we eat dirt and blackboard work this must be solved

i dont need to help atall
but i do see the problem for sure.,.. and its the tos you use together with driver fixes
and the speed of chips
as i said 70ns etc will have a whole different transition slope
to 100ns and the eproms do get around to do things faster
and with more weight
its up too you too
let me send you both eproms 90ns properly programmed to spec

....
tony never had issues before he stuck in extra this and that
and maybe a faster mpu
or perhaps the person who sold him it stuck the mpu in and found issues
and didnt know how to solve it

specifc machine need specific chips
and madusa sayed to me 90 or 100ns eproms

not 70 or the 120 i used with tonys set before

so elfacto inculso you need 90ns eproms with no FF space for 060
and 100ns with also no FF space for 040 mpu within hades

using ALL 60ns dram simms all the same maker type is better
as it gives the mmu less to do
maching symmetric and non symmetric ram in realtime
to make a total

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:09 pm

simbo wrote:let me send you both eproms 90ns properly programmed to spec


Thanks for the offer, but my board was purchased by me, directly from Fredi (->Medusa). I have not changed anything on the board except the Dallas clock module. I will not swap any chips or anything else unless I have a schematic laying in front of me. If you send me free chips I won't use them. :)

Tony on the hand really needs help though.

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:14 pm

well ok ip
good luck with ide.... and newer drivers

sometimes tos just works faster if allowed too
i think you need 90ns tos roms with slack space left blank

however maybe freddie will show the need's

its a fact the preamble of hddriver is now much faster...

try chbd its prob more complient to scsi / acsi than hddriver is
even 7.8

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:20 pm

another thing is power up 'spin up delay'

i think you need to power on the ide

then power on the hades

problem solved ffs its that simple

tos 3.06 unlike tos 4 does not account for ide spin up

so expect data colussions
when the ide drive should be just detected its spitting out its geomerty

power on ide then hades please

esp new type drives

drives to no longer account for ignorance of older ones like less than 1GB ATA level

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:29 pm

New drive won't help or changing the driver, as I said before, if I attach an any IDE device (the old one that I know works, brand new one, or ide->cf adapter with bog standard CF) the machine just don't work, power it up and get garbage display and its frozen.

Your theories and speculation don't explain why the machine ran fine with an IDE drive for 10 years rock solid. In fact the old drive is fine, something on the board has changed. Its re-cased and I just don't use the IDE bus anymore, I can live with that. That's better than nothing. Far as I am concerned my problem is solved.
Last edited by lp on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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