My Hades is now English

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simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:37 pm

i think you misconduced what i said
i said
power on ide devices and scsi devices on delay
power on hades use separate psu...
then all devices are ready before initialised by the driver


i expect when you power on your supply ... internal drives and mainboard as one??
this is daft
one psu for mainboard and one for hdd
hdd is the first to come online and init
as i said to you tos 4 accounts for ide spin up but tos 3 wont allow for spin up of likes of cf or ide
as they take different times to init
i see your too pissed at your machine to talk about it
but this idea is always there


so if the machine boots with no driver and the driver is the issue
or the init of the drive

either the drive inits too fast or the driver when loaded causes a bus collision

so smell the coffee and use a seperate psu for all drives except the floppy

its simple logic ... ffs :|

then its back to programming with ide there!!!

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:10 pm

if i remember you will find that the nvram stores spinup delay
and this info is programmed by the drive
on an update basis
you may find changing the nvram compounds the issue
and that hddriver programs the needed delay to nvram
as the same maker makes a nvram tool with limited functions it makes sense he is
keeping cards close to his chest
these 50 bytes are needed for sure
and i think in hades there is a programmable ide and scsi spin up delay
the only way around is to spin up and settle all drives first
then and only then tos should check for drives
in atari st ste etc tos 2> there is a scsi delay
not so for ide ...
it has in falcon its own register and i think hddriver caters for this mostly

so please put us to rest and does a separate psu cure the ide problem ! :contract:

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:14 pm

simbo wrote:i think you misconduced what i said
i said
power on ide devices and scsi devices on delay
power on hades use separate psu...
then all devices are ready before initialised by the driver


Perhaps I did, its the choppy English. I know you try your best.

i expect when you power on your supply ... internal drives and mainboard as one??
this is daft
one psu for mainboard and one for hdd
hdd is the first to come online and init
as i said to you tos 4 accounts for ide spin up but tos 3 wont allow for spin up of likes of cf or ide
as they take different times to init
i see your too pissed at your machine to talk about it
but this idea is always there


It might seem daft to you but it worked that way for 10 years. I get that you are trying to solve it, but you don't see my point view I guess. Rather then work around it, I want to know the actual cause, and I can't determine that without a proper schematic. I worked in electronics for 12 years, done my share of diagnostic and repair. I don't do random chip changes or work with guessing. Maybe you do. I won't risk further damage on an already fragile board. Especially one I cannot replace.

Your test might even work, but it won't tell me where exactly the bad component is and I already know its on the board. I'm not pissed, actually I'm rather happy the machine works. You do realize it has SCSI on the board as well as IDE. Its not a big deal to boot it from SCSI. I don't really have space for another PSU laying around, more fan noise, etc. I'm just firm in my position I don't care about the IDE. If the machine had no other bus, then yeah I'd probably be doing your test right now, but that isn't case. :lol:

You would do better to focus on Tony, I'm already back to normal activities with my Hades. :wink:

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:38 pm

i think its defo a capacitor as it all went wrong over time
so replace ALL electrolytics on the main board
would be my start point and this takes NO schematics
i respect your years also and i see your just pissed off
i never work with schematics where hi density ic's are involved
just basic common sense
so take my advice
if you replace a psu it makes sense all the rest of the common problem
electrolytics are gubbed
and its a better start point to replace all of them low and high values
as they will be as dry as an old dry desert bone...
my english isnt good
its my first language but i speek many including chinese
and my english didnt go badly wrong till i learned it...!
i see on the hades board about 30 pcb mounted somewhat 'invisilble crap made smd low/high value electrolytics'
the smd ones are the hidden enemy here!!! 100uf 47 uf 10uf blocks
they fail in 5 -6 years where the can type in 5-7 years or so
mark my words...! and i would not be surprised if your hades fails very soon
to boot from even scsi!!

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby lp » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:02 am

I don't doubt that its a capacitor, in fact that's usually the first thing to go bad in the PSU as well, that's why I replaced the PSU. Process of elimination as they call it. And no I say again I am not pissed off. I don't get how you interpret my writing as that. In fact I used the Hades today and it was a joy to get back to normal. You seem more annoyed that I don't do as you tell me. So be it. I have my own methods and I won't randomly pull capacitors if there is a chance I can get the schematic. Yes, it will eventually fail, that's the way of the world, nothing lasts forever, so you are not telling me anything I don't already know.

If anyone is pissed off its poor Tony. He paid a good chunk of change for his machine and got 1 weeks worth of use. :cry: I got 10 years of heavy use, that's amazing and quite frankly it has out lasted 2 macs.

simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:29 pm

after thinking
tony needs to contact techie alison

and ask her to replace the simm sockets and change the boards smd box electrolytics
and the radial ones
this is his best bet to keep costs down and get a platform then to work from
i think more and more as i replace them these smd ones on 90's machine are the hidden cause ...
these days cpu mainboards use radial for anything above 10uf
and as few of the old smd ones as possible
the low value ones are the worst and are used in a bad part's of the circuit
where its tight till it fails .. then like an old jumper unjumbles...

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:42 pm

I do not mind who I talk to about the issues with the Hades, I am concerned only with making a worker form the sick machine.

What may be needed is someone with the technical skill to fully understand the Hades, composition and a plan of action to follow.
Having a mass of information available prior to the surgery is of paramount importance.
Any "guesswork" would be of little use and purely theoreticall at this stage, rather a compound reliable knowledge of the Hades & any schematic would be a far more productive venture.
In the interim, any comments regarding possible avenues to follow are being noted.
Any "jump in" solutions will at this time be disregarded simply because of the very nature of the motherboard and its uniqueness.
Ofcourse, had there been a bigger production run of the Hades, there would perhaps be a support service should a machine develope faults, therefore, the possibility to source components and a sutable enginner for repairs would perhaps not be an issue.
Should a bodgeit and hackit repair be undertaten and a failiure ensues. The end result in the current situation would surely be a disasterous one.

The risks are far too fundamentally great to proceed with reckless actions in the hope of a fix.
Heating up a motherboard of this uniqueness when trying to replace components may just exasserbate issues and further destroy any chances of possible fixes that could be undertook.

If someone like Freddie would be kind enough to lend his expertise to the project, this would at least give it a modecome of chance at success.
Getting Freddie on side would be a challenge in its own right.
Getting Freddie to pick up the neccessary tools to undertake a fix would also be a difficult challenge as it would seem that his interest lies elsewhere nowadays.

At this junction, I can only hope that with some well chosen words and support from other users of the Hades, a solution may soon be found.!

As for Tecchie Alison. Well it would seem she has other more pressing things to attend with at this time as her presence is not exactly abundant on this forum as of this date. Should her situation alter or she may wish to put her ten penneth worth into the mix. It would surely be most welcome.

Till a solution of some soundness can be found, it would appear that patience is the key.!
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby wongck » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:10 am

Not sure if Czuba is able to help.
May be you email him and ask.
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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby wongck » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:23 am

I was at Medusa website to look at Firebee, I saw that hades is still available from Medusa at 2600.-sFr.
Unless they did not update the site but I think they did because FireBee stuff are there.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63+CTPCI ATI R7500 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD EtherNEC/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
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simbo

Re: My Hades is now English

Postby simbo » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:38 pm

personaly i would just change all the smd electrolytic capacitors
and the simm sockets
it doesnt take any brains or schematics to do this
i do have a degree in electronics engineering with radio and radar maintainance
and a master degree in computer architecture with parallel optical processing

i can assure you changing the boards capacitors is really easy as are the simms to change
any chimp can do it...
and around the power on reset is where i would look to change them all
ive personaly worked on many one off pcb's made by my uni with 20 layers some optical bifringance mixers
so the hades isnt that rare

tony you dont seem to listen to what i said about the eproms
they should defo be on 90ns no faster ... not 100 or 70 but 90ns
at the time i was making yours i asked the guy at madusa and he made it clear that 90ns or 100ns
depending on what mpu you use is the speed too use
incidentaly i did order 90ns types and still have 10 if hades users wish them flashed up
when using a better mpu etc ....

i can send you a set
pm me your address
if they dont help fine but atleast youll have the right eproms

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:24 pm

Simbo, if you wish to send me that are correct as you say then please feel free to do so.You should still have my address as you sent me items more than once in the past.When I finally get the video back I will give them a go.
As for now. The machine has been returned to what was supplied origionally as I said in previous posts. But even doing this has had no positive affect.

While I am here, is there any news on the memory program for the TT. The one you mentioned would recognise ram properly?
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby TTowner » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:45 am

Well it would seem that after all this talk there has been some interesting suggestions.
The talk though is helpfull, yet it is not acheiving the aim of the repair on this wonderful machine..Simply because talk and reparing have not come together.

Since last posting I have managed to source the Abel software but not all the tools & as the tools along with a competant engineer is needed it would look like this repair is stagnant for the time being..

So, the hunt is on to find an enginner that has the necessary ability, time and interest in undertaking the task.

Anyone on their travels come across such a person. PLEASE direct them to my Email address.

Thank you all for the input you gave.
Hades060 & 2 TT030 machines.Nova & Spektrum Graphics cards,1 Reibel network cards,1 Netusb,Slm Lazer printer, Epson GT600 flatbed, 2 SCSi to IDE interface + UltraSatan.Nakamachi 7 & 5 CD disk changers.Mega STE .[url]http://www.llill.co/5j
[/url]

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby alanh » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:11 am

I know someone who has the tools as long as we can compile the ABEL code into a HEX/BIN object. That's the sticking point for me.
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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby Kroll » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:24 pm

TTowner wrote:Turned on the Hades tonight to start work on configuring it and all I got was



Image


I really am fed up now.What must I do to get what I want.

Anyone have any idea what this is ?
The machine just displays this now.My guess is the video card rom has decided to take a holiday.


I cannot believe my luck [smilie=greencolorz4_pdt_05.gif]


I would like to back to this post and this screenshot.
Identical receives the screenshot when I plug the IDE hard drive and is independent of the drive I tried on two different one as the master Seagate 1.3, while the second was also a Seagate Baracuda 20GB (slave).
This thread already tried to raise the Atari Clone the list and said to try to change the cables, or for security in general do not move your IDE. I have a big drive who uzywalme chchialem the Falcon and insert it into Hades.
Until now, only I used SCSI devices

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Re: My Hades is now English

Postby Rustynutt » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:53 am

This post may be pointless looking where the discussion went and how long it's been

The Milan provides a user application to configure and flash it's BIOS.
Without the unit booted in front of me, cannot explain verbatim the sequence.

Have no clue if this is something than can be done from the desktop of the Hades.
Maybe it's useful, maybe not.

Michael sold as extra the driver required for SCSI operation on the Milan.
This file, or at least the configuration for it's operation was performed using the flash tool.

Without going into whom killed whom, and what kind of axe was used, was never successful in getting the SCSI bus to work properly with any SCSI device.

Also note that with the SCSI driver (or configuration thereof) flashed in BIOS, the Milan exhibited many of the same issues discussed here. I too chased down cables, various SCSI cards and varying SCSI devices. Just when it would appear a configuration was successful, on the next sequential boot numerous errors were encountered. Note too that even without devices connected to the bus, the errors would still occur as long as the driver were installed.

The remedy was to not configure the SCSI driver in the BIOS (removing it by option).
It was then the machine booted and functioned reliably without error.

Never had issues with the IDE bus on the Milan. My point, or thought here is if the Hades can have the IDE and or SCSI drivers disabled in BIOS (not talking about HDD or such, that's well after the fact), and if those are the root of the problem, the Hades should boot to ROM (although a different type monitor may need be connected if a video driver is required for the graphics card). Usually with the Hades, Milan and clones, there was a basic VGA driver in BIOS to at least watch post messages. Also keep in mind while troubleshooting, problems with a faulty device driver configuration can corrupt data during start up, and well, that's a bad thing :)

If for some reason ROM data was changed (as it was for English options, and LP, don't recall if you had made changes), and cannot be re-flashed from desktop, then you are back to square one.


My 2 cents.


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