Milan questions and requests!

All things related to the Hades and Milan clones

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Zogging Hell
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Milan questions and requests!

Postby Zogging Hell » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:15 pm

I've just pulled my Milan out of hibernation and was looking to upgrade the graphics card to the latest version, but was wondering where to get the drivers from and which graphics cards I could use? I used to have this info somewhere but due to several hard disk failures on my PC and operating system upgrades it's been lost somewhere.
Also yonks ago I installed a soundblaster 16 (ISA not the PCI version) and was wondering whether the Milan blaster software (which I didn't get at the time), which can drive the ISA card is really worth it (I understand the free sound card software available only works with PCI cards). Should I just dump the card (which I'm loath to do seeing as it should work) or should I spend wads of cash on the Milanblaster software (if it is even available). Any advice would be appreciated.
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Mark_G » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:50 am

Hello,

I used the milanblaster software (official licence) for my sound-card on the Milan, but I've mixed feelings with this driver.

I use Milanmagic as OS, and has a soundblaster AWE32 with an isa network card.
When I boot the milan, sometimes he recognizes the sound card, and sometimes not. But after a cold reboot, mostly, I could get access to the card.
I'll tried different combinations, IRQ's, boot orders, etc.. But couldn't track down the problem.

The additional software for the milanblaster don't work with magic. At least not with me.

I use an ISA network card, because the drivers for the pci card are only mint-drivers.
(RTL8139 based PCI ethernet cards for MiNT from AssemSoft)

Further, I never managed to get the pci drivers for the soundcard to work.
I'm only aware of a pci ES1371 driver for the Hades, not for the Milan.

When someone got the same problems, or found a solution, I'll be happy (an not me alone) to hear how he managed to fix it.

Mark

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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Zogging Hell » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:09 pm

So probably not worth buying then really? It was always a bit of a pain having to fork out on an already pricey machine to get some sound out of it. Speaking of which, what sound do you get out of it, can you play samples etc?
BTW what graphics card do you have in your milan, is it the ATI one?

Thanks for the reply :D
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Mark_G » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:27 pm

Sound :
It plays well. I use Rational Sounds to give an 'extra' to the OS.
Further, no use at all. Forget mp3.

Graphic card :
I use the S3 card.

I've only the milan mother board, and I'm still looking for a nice case to put everything inside. (MoBo, Hd, DVD, Zip drive, ect..).

I use the milan with milanmagic, for surfing i useCab and Highwire, wordprocessing with Papyrus and further Calamus 86, and Pure-C.

Mark

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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Frank B » Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:30 pm

Mark_G wrote:Sound :
It plays well. I use Rational Sounds to give an 'extra' to the OS.
Further, no use at all. Forget mp3.

Graphic card :
I use the S3 card.

I've only the milan mother board, and I'm still looking for a nice case to put everything inside. (MoBo, Hd, DVD, Zip drive, ect..).

I use the milan with milanmagic, for surfing i useCab and Highwire, wordprocessing with Papyrus and further Calamus 86, and Pure-C.

Mark


Is there a solution on magic for dialog boxes preventing app switching?

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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Zogging Hell » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:38 pm

Thanks Mark G

Is the S3 the one that came with the machine?
I vaguely remember there being about three options, with an ATI card being the last and 'best' one though I could be very wrong.
Yeah use MagicMilan as well, it's by far the best option for the machine. There just isn't enough grunt for Mint.
I use a case I got with the machine, the annoying thing being the motherboard uses an AT style power switch and the case has an ATX style button, i.e. they aren't compatible. System Solutions in the UK had to put my power switch round the back of the machine, which is somewhat annoying. So if you do find a case make sure you can use the power button.
I'm hoping to get some sort of network solution sorted on it soon, quite fancy taking it for a spin with Netsurf eventually.

Frank B, I don't think there's not a lot of difference with MagicMilan and Magic 6.2 in terms of user functionality, although obviously there are major changes behind the scenes in terms of it being more platform independent. I never really noticed that as a problem in Magic on either the ST or Milan from a user perspective so I might not be the right person to answer that.
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby PeterS » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:16 pm

I have the isa soundblaster and the later Rage gfx card. I am not sure the drivers are still available commercially.

I use Mint 1.17, I've never used Magic on it so I can't compare performance.

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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Zogging Hell » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:36 pm

PeterS do you mean the drivers for the Milanblaster or the ones for the graphics card? So even if I did want to use the soundcard I could be out of luck then?

Which rage graphics card model have you got in there, I have a ATI rage II 4mb lurking around, would that be any good to use in my Milan?
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby PeterS » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:57 am

Using pci-info my card is described as an ATI Rage Pro, without pulling the card out it is hard to tell more.

I got it from a Germany company with the driver. This link prbably tells you more.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=12568
http://www.stcarchiv.de/stc2003/04_rage.php

* Mach64 VT
* Mach64 CT
* Rage II
* Rage MC
* Rage II+DVD
* Rage 2C
* Rage Pro
* Rage Pro Turbo

Folgende Karten gehen hingegen definitiv nicht:

* Rage Pro mit Video Out
* Rage XL (Xpert 98)


It would be worth testing the Rage card.

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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Zogging Hell » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:42 pm

Ah thank you that ST computer article was a great help, I'd seen the other one. Looks like the company that supplied that driver might not be doing it any more either, what a shame! (Although my German isn't that great however, their site looks it doesn't have entries for Atari anymore). Looks like I'm out of luck on both the Milanblaster and ATI graphics cards front (doubly annoying as both my soundblaster and my ATI card are both supported by the individual drivers). Pity the companies involved didn't release them as freeware before they left the scene :cry:

Thanks for you help again everyone.
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Mark_G » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:24 pm

Hello,

I'm using the S3 card, which was included with the machine.

I've also an ISA networkcard, and can surf very well with the Milan. (Cab 2.7 and Highwire).

If I remember well, there are some problems with the magicnet drivers. See my former posts on this forum.

At the moment, I'm checking out how I can upgrade the milan with an 68060/50 processor.

Mark

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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Zogging Hell » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:29 pm

That's something I could do as well, as I've got a 68060 lurking about from the CT60. Did enquire about the adaptor a few years back with the maker, who said a had a few bits left over in a drawer iirc, but unfortunately it came to nothing. Ah well!
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby PeterS » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:55 pm

I tried the Radeon card that Didier Mequignon was using on the CTpci but the Milan bios wouldn't start it.

I think it uses some 386 emulation to start the card and the Milan didn't manage to do it.

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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Zogging Hell » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:24 pm

Think I'll have to add a Milan section to Zogging Hell to detail some of this info, and stuff about the machine in general as there seems to be little on the web about it nowadays...
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby [ProToS] » Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:07 pm

you could find some info on the Ingo Schmidt Milan help page
http://www.der-ingo.de/en/milanhelp/index.html
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby joska » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:26 am



These benchmarks are interesting. They confirm my suspicions that the S3 is actually snappier than the ATI card. It's definitely a driver issue. It would be fun looking into this if the driver sources were available.
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Zogging Hell » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:12 am

Thanks for those links, Mark and Protos. I was aware of most of them, though I admit I hadn't seen a couple for years.

Jo, do you mean with regards to blitting as the ATI seems to walk over the S3 on all the other benchmarks? Yep pity the drivers aren't available..
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby joska » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:26 am

Zogging Hell wrote:Thanks for those links, Mark and Protos. I was aware of most of them, though I admit I hadn't seen a couple for years.

Jo, do you mean with regards to blitting as the ATI seems to walk over the S3 on all the other benchmarks? Yep pity the drivers aren't available..


The differences between the ATI and S3 are small in all tests except blitting (which is *extremely" important when it comes to moving windows, displaying menus etc) where the S3 is much faster than the ATI. I noticed this immediately when I switched to the ATI card, but I was too lazy to reinstall the S3 and do proper benchmarks :)
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Zogging Hell » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:56 pm

Yeah I must admit looking at those specs the cards are quite close on a lot of things. I'm surprised how slow it is for blitting, although most of the other VDI functions seem a lot faster..
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby joska » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:58 pm

Zogging Hell wrote:Yeah I must admit looking at those specs the cards are quite close on a lot of things. I'm surprised how slow it is for blitting, although most of the other VDI functions seem a lot faster..


Yes, the ATI is faster at many things, but the poor blitting performance makes a huge difference. It feels slower than the S3 in real use.
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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby PeterS » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:38 pm

Is the blitting issue a hardware or driver issue.

Perhaps it would be better to patch the TOS or BIOS or whatever is needed to get the
Radeon to boot ?

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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby Mark_G » Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:57 pm

In my search (conquest is better) to install a pci soundcard, I found this interesting site :

http://www.wikihost.org/w/hdkwsmda/atari_milan

I don't know who has written it, but it contains a lot of configuration information.

BTW, I've milanblaster, but not the file MB_BIOS.p21

Can someone gives me more info about this file ?


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Re: Milan questions and requests!

Postby joska » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:12 pm

PeterS wrote:Is the blitting issue a hardware or driver issue.


Definitely a driver issue. Blitting is much faster on my Falcon with an Eclipse, which has pretty much the same card.

PeterS wrote:Perhaps it would be better to patch the TOS or BIOS or whatever is needed to get the
Radeon to boot ?


When the CTPCI fVDI driver is more mature, I hope to try it on my Milan with a Radeon. The Radeon might boot the same way as the Rage, by running it's BIOS in a x86 emulator.
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