Milan ATI

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Milan ATI

Postby PeterS » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:43 pm

Has anyone tried a widescreen LCD on the Milan wiht ATI ?

A lot of new monitors are widescreen and I wonder if the ATI can do the resolutions.

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Re: Milan ATI

Postby joska » Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:54 pm

PeterS wrote:Has anyone tried a widescreen LCD on the Milan wiht ATI ?

A lot of new monitors are widescreen and I wonder if the ATI can do the resolutions.


I guess that depends on which ATI card you have. The driver supports several cards, the ATI card in my Milan is a 8Mb Rage of some kind and supports resolutions up to 1600 x 1200.
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Postby PeterS » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:40 pm

I'll check next time I boot. I can't think of a way to check otherwise.

The 19" widescreens I took a quick look at have
resolutions like 1440x900 which is 16:10
I don't know if the ATI does 16:10 resolutions.

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Postby PeterS » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:32 pm

Whatever it says at boot disappears too quickly
to read.

I found pci_info by Jean-Marc Stocklausen and
that says ATI Rage PRo.

It would be helpful if the boot stuff was logged in
some way.

Peter
Last edited by PeterS on Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Milan ATI

Postby ppera » Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:21 pm

PeterS wrote:Has anyone tried a widescreen LCD on the Milan wiht ATI ?

A lot of new monitors are widescreen and I wonder if the ATI can do the resolutions.


Every VGA card (chip) is wide configurable by SW.
It is possible to get every aspect ratio. Only someone must to programm it - read: make driver.

Of course, very high res (horizontal) may be problem by older cards because of speed, but likely it is possible to get 1440 with Rage, at least in 8, 16 bit color mode.

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Postby PeterS » Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:37 pm

I think it goes as far as 1600x1200 in 64k colours if not 16M colours

I currently use 1152x768 though I am not sure where this ratio came from because it's not even 4:3 it's 15:10 which isn't very far from wide screen proportions. Widescreen 1440x900 is 16:10

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Postby unseenmenace » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:21 pm

PeterS wrote:I currently use 1152x768 though I am not sure where this ratio came from because it's not even 4:3 it's 15:10 which isn't very far from wide screen proportions.

That is unusual, 1152 wide is usually 864 high. In that past I have used PowerStrip to create custom screen resolutions under Windows and its possible it might be useful in getting an idea of what the card can do and what settings it requires?
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Postby bullis1 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:51 pm

The video card in my PC is a 4mb ATI Rage II+, and in 8-bit (256) colour mode it can support any resolution thrown at it, including ridiculously high ones and resolutions in strange aspect ratios. In 16-bit colour, I'm not quite sure how high it will go but it will go above 1024x768.

I know this doesn't tell you how to accomplish this on an Atari/Milan, but I can confirm that the Rage/Mach32 range from ATI will support widescreen resolutions. I used to have a 2mb on-board Mach32 chipset as well and I got similar results.

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Postby PeterS » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:58 pm

I did a brief experiment of adding 1440x900 to the ATI driver config but it didn't show up in the list of available resolutions when I rebooted. I don't know why this happened. I will do some more tests and report back.

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Postby Desty » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:34 am

Hmm. I thought resolutions would be constrained by the memory on the card?

I managed to grab an old Rage 128 (iirc) from the IT support guy in my university who had a box of similar cards lying about unused.
When I installed it in my Linux box (hoping to replace the not great onboard i810 one), I found that I could only use certain resolutions and colour depths - maybe only 1024x768 in 16-bit mode - for X11 with direct rendering.

Then again, I seem to recall higher resolutions working in software rendering mode, so maybe it's some acceleration thing.

(the card was poo anyway!)
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Postby PeterS » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:59 pm

unseenmenace wrote:
PeterS wrote:I currently use 1152x768 though I am not sure where this ratio came from because it's not even 4:3 it's 15:10 which isn't very far from wide screen proportions.

That is unusual, 1152 wide is usually 864 high. In that past I have used PowerStrip to create custom screen resolutions under Windows and its possible it might be useful in getting an idea of what the card can do and what settings it requires?


You are right it is 1152x864

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Re: Milan ATI

Postby PeterS » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:51 pm

Having given up on getting a widescreen LCD to work I bought a Samsung 943 4:3 19" screen.

Couldn't get it set-up right at all. Auto-configure put the screen off to the left and even manually tweaking it didn't get all the image on the screen. Luckily the screen didn't tilt so I sent it back to Dabs who were good.

Then my brother offered me his spare 4:3, an Acer 1914 19" and that works perfectly at 1280x1024. I didn't even alter the old settings I had from the Belinea CRT, it just auto-configured to the right size and shape. Some of the lower resolutions aren't right but I don't intend using them.

I now have the LCD frequencies so I might be able to improve the appearrance of the lower res. during boot-up.

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Re: Milan ATI

Postby Ektus » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:52 pm

It's been seven years, but now I've got to bring this topic back. My 17" Gericom LCD has died, so I've got to connect another monitor to my Milan with 4MB ATI graphics card. It should be able to drive the 20" HP LP2065 that's working perfectly with the Radeon in my CTPCI equipped Falcon, but it doesn't :-(

As soon as the driver switches to the desired resolution, the monitor enters power saving mode.

The 1280x1024 setting that worked well on the 17" LCD does produce a mostly usable picture, but timing is off and I can't tweak the monitor settings far enough to display the entire width. A couple pixel vanish behind the border of the screen.

I've got a beta version 1.1 of the driver that came with the GEM-TV card. It reports:
Chipset: 3D Rage IIC 0x4756
Memory: 4 Megabyte of Pseudo-EDO
DotClk: 235MHz max.
MemClk: 60MHz

I've already tried entering the VESA timings for 1600x1200 into the modeline, but no luck. Has anybody here had success with this endeavour and could share his/her findings?


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Re: Milan ATI

Postby joska » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:35 pm

Ektus wrote:The 1280x1024 setting that worked well on the 17" LCD does produce a mostly usable picture, but timing is off and I can't tweak the monitor settings far enough to display the entire width.


The problem is that the driver insists on using a 110MHz dotclock for 1280x1024, instead of the correct 108MHz. This results in a slightly too high hfreq, which many monitors objects to. I've been struggling to get my Milan with ATI graphics card to work in this mode on some of my monitors, but I had to fall back to an old 17" which handled the odd frequency correctly. Even specifying the dotclock in the modeline did not help.
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Re: Milan ATI

Postby Ektus » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:53 am

My monitor reports the 1280x1024 as 1400x1050 63,6kHz 59Hz. The picture on the 20" 1600x1200 display is still better than on the 1280x1024 19" Hanns-G, but I'd rather use the native 1600x1200. IIRC, the VESA timing requires a 162MHz clock, so how can the driver be convinced to use that clock?

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Re: Milan ATI

Postby joska » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:19 am

To specify a particular dotclock you add a "dc:162.0" (for 162.0MHz) to the modeline. However, it doesn't look like the driver cares.
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Re: Milan ATI

Postby Ektus » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:20 pm

I did start over with modifying the MVDI.CNF one line at a time, starting with a working 1280x1024 configuration.

Changing the monitor properties MaxResolution and Bandwith had no effect. Before: 1280 1024 130000000, after 1600 1200 202000000.

Changing the HFreq from 31500 64000 to 30000 94000 resulted in a change in timing and the 1280x1024 picture was no longer cropped.

VFreq stays at 50 075 and Flags at 0x0001.

Changing MaxDCLK from 110000000 to 202000000 and MODE16CLOCK from 115000000 to 162000000 did nothing, but finally changing the Defaultmodus to 1600*1200*64k got me a nice and shiny 1600x1200 display, albeit with 71Hz and slightly blurry. It's just beyond the lower border of the manual adjusment range of the monitor, but it's still better than the interpolated 1280x1024 one.

Now if I can reduce the refresh rate to the recommended 60Hz...

I'll report back if there's more news.


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Re: Milan ATI

Postby PeterS » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:12 pm

I was only thinking a few days ago that it would be nice to get the Radeon card to boot in the Milan. I gather the DOS emulator isn't up to it.

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Re: Milan ATI

Postby Ektus » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:26 pm

The DOS (or rather X86) Emulator is necessary to get a picture in plain TOS. But it should still be possible to start a driver from the AUTO folder like with some Falcon graphics cards. It might be possible to use two cards, one with the old driver and a second one with the Radeon driver. IF the Radeon driver were available and could be tweaked to ignore the "old" card.
Last edited by Ektus on Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Milan ATI

Postby Ektus » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:40 pm

Ektus wrote:Now if I can reduce the refresh rate to the recommended 60Hz...

I'll report back if there's more news.


Okay, dozens of tweak attempts and reboots later, the image has improved somewhat, but is not 100% stable yet. My findings so far:

- The driver seems to heed the monitor limits. Setting the upper limit for scan rate and bandwith changes the timing.
- The driver seems to use some parameters from the modeline (xs and xe)
- I've been able to get to 1600x1200, 74,9kHz, 59Hz, but the scanline timing is still off. I'm unable to adjust the monitor settings far enough to fit the entire width. Some pixels are still missing and there is a slight flickering/moiree accross the entire screen. Okay for reading of text, not so good for a standard checkered background image.


Current settings:

Bandwith: 167000000
HFreq: 30000 76000
VFreq: 50 075

xl:2160 (changes seem to have no effect)
xs:1604
xe:1656


That's it for now.


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Re: Milan ATI

Postby PeterS » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:42 pm

Who would know about the x86 emulator used in the Milan ?

Was it just plugged in or was it heavily modified to run in the Milan boot sequence ?

I am just wondering if it could be updated, if there is a later version of the same emu.

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Re: Milan ATI

Postby empereurlord » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:17 am

Hi, the topic being about Ati's cards, may i ask if most of PCI ati cards would run on a milan ? (As I can put my hands on a PCI 256mb 2260 FirePro ... which would be a nice improvement over the original Milan GPU.)
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Re: Milan ATI

Postby gstoll » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:23 am

empereurlord wrote:Hi, the topic being about Ati's cards, may i ask if most of PCI ati cards would run on a milan ? (As I can put my hands on a PCI 256mb 2260 FirePro )

The driver support the follwing cards:

mach64GX
mach64CX
mach64CT
mach64ET
mach64VT
mach64VTB
mach64LT
mach64LG
3D Rage (XL)
3D Rage (GT)
3D RageII+ (GTB)
3D Rage Pro
3D Rage IIC
mach64VT4

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Re: Milan ATI

Postby mfro » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:35 pm

PeterS wrote:Who would know about the x86 emulator used in the Milan ?

Was it just plugged in or was it heavily modified to run in the Milan boot sequence ?

I am just wondering if it could be updated, if there is a later version of the same emu.


I wouldn't care much about it. If the Milan's startup sequence is similar to that in FireTOS (which is what I assume), the emulator is only needed to run the card's BIOS once for basic initialization. Everything else (setting up resolutions, etc.) is the duty of the driver.

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Re: Milan ATI

Postby joska » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:47 am

mfro wrote:If the Milan's startup sequence is similar to that in FireTOS (which is what I assume), the emulator is only needed to run the card's BIOS once for basic initialization.


The problem is that the x86 emulator spend around 30 seconds to run the VGA BIOS on a Milan060. I haven't even tried on a 040... And this is done on every (re)boot, which is quite annoying.
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