Steem LE

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Steven Seagal
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Steem LE

Postby Steven Seagal » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:15 am

Hi,
I'm working on a new build of Steem, based on Steem SSE, which itself is based on Steem "3.2". :)

The current name is Steem LE. The idea is that it becomes the main build of Steem, while other 'SSE' builds are still available for all versions.
It would follow the same version numbering and start at 4.0.

The difference with 'SSE' is that it would contain fewer features and options, so as to be simpler especially for newbies, or for people who don't like all those confusing options.

For example, options 'C1' and 'C2' would disappear, but it's like they were ticked.

For some features, it's not straightforward: no more accelerated drive! Is it acceptable these days? After all, we can bear it already for Pasti, CAPS, SCP ...

Hacks like accelerated ST, extended monitors and 14MB memory would disappear, but not emulation of real hardware hacks.

It would be 32bit and D3D only.

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Re: Steem LE

Postby Steven Seagal » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:49 am


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Re: Steem LE

Postby spiny » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:18 am

sounds good, but would it make more sense to just add a 'simple mode' to SSE, which is on by default? then have an 'advanced options' setting which unlocks all the current extra RAM, FastForward stuff etc ? Or would that be too much work to maintain? I'm not a coder so genuinly not sure :)

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Re: Steem LE

Postby Cyprian » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:21 am

+1 for Spiny
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Re: Steem LE

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:44 am

Honestly, I don't see it as some LE. There is still plenty of (confusing too) settings.
'Hacks like accelerated ST" - huh, but you did not remove it completely. There is still full speed button, there is still run speed setting ++ in Options, General. You removed only CPU clock setting, while actually it was most useful, and I'm sure most used among speed setting features.
Removing accelerated drive, "we can bear it already for Pasti' - as I know there is plenty of setting on Pasti submenu, and they affect speed too.
But idea is good, I think. Maybe because inspired by someone :D
Negative feedback has usually positive effect.

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Re: Steem LE

Postby Steven Seagal » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:01 am

spiny wrote:sounds good, but would it make more sense to just add a 'simple mode' to SSE, which is on by default? then have an 'advanced options' setting which unlocks all the current extra RAM, FastForward stuff etc ? Or would that be too much work to maintain? I'm not a coder so genuinly not sure :)


Yes, but there are already a lot of builds, one more or less...
It would add overhead instead of removing it.
Another reason is that some options require files, 'SSE' can work without.
Another is that arranging the options would be more work.
Another is that people would check advanced and change other options, then complain that it doesn't work.
I don't say it won't happen at some point...

AtariZoll wrote:Honestly, I don't see it as some LE. There is still plenty of (confusing too) settings.


Which ones?

'Hacks like accelerated ST" - huh, but you did not remove it completely. There is still full speed button, there is still run speed setting ++ in Options, General.


Ooops. Forgot that!
EDIT: I think the Fast Forward button should stay, it's not confusing, it's intuitive and handy.
If emulation goes wrong, it's obvious why.

But idea is good, I think. Maybe because inspired by someone :D


Nope, been on it for months, 'Steem is too complex' is a recurrent complaint.

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Re: Steem LE

Postby ijor » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:02 pm

May be instead of a different build, just a mode? Normal and expert mode? Just an idea, but the concept it is used nowadays ...

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Re: Steem LE

Postby Cyprian » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:40 pm

+1 for ijor
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Re: Steem LE

Postby Steven Seagal » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:04 pm

I already listed reasons not to go that way, but even if we do, it's for later.
Stuff like that takes time. :)

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Re: Steem LE

Postby ijor » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:06 pm

Oh, I didn't realize it was already suggested and you already replied. Sorry :oops:

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Re: Steem LE

Postby Steven Seagal » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:11 pm

ijor wrote:Oh, I didn't realize it was already suggested and you already replied. Sorry :oops:


Guess it's the first idea that comes to mind...

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Re: Steem LE

Postby wietze » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:58 pm

Interesting concept. I myself am a fan of 3.2 Boiler over the SSE version, and usually only use the SSE version if I require some feature that the original version does not support. This sounds like music to my ears :)

Will download and check it out.

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Re: Steem LE

Postby Cyprian » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:05 pm

wietze wrote:I myself am a fan of 3.2 Boiler over the SSE version

interesting. what's the reason?
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Re: Steem LE

Postby wietze » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:50 pm

Cyprian wrote:
wietze wrote:I myself am a fan of 3.2 Boiler over the SSE version

interesting. what's the reason?


One of the things I can recall quickly is that the behaviour of breaking on a code-breakpoint (move.b #0,$ffffc123) is different; something with one more or less instruction executed; amongst other things.

But considering the overscan support in SSE is better, I use both.

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Re: Steem LE

Postby Steven Seagal » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:33 pm

If there are bugs in Boiler SSE, please report them where it's appropriate, and maybe they will be fixed.
It's off topic here, because those changes don't apply to the Boiler, which is for the "pro" anyway.
There is only one Boiler SSE build, it is 32bit and D3D (3.2 is DD).

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Re: Steem LE

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:50 am

wietze wrote:Interesting concept. I myself am a fan of 3.2 Boiler over the SSE version, and usually only use the SSE version if I require some feature that the original version does not support. This sounds like music to my ears :)
Will download and check it out.

Yep, exactly the same here. Steem Debugger 3.2 is well done tool, and is perfect for 98% of SW. So, why not using it most time.
On the other side, I don't see why we need Boiler v. of LE . Boiler is not for beginners :D
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Re: Steem LE

Postby wietze » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:45 am

AtariZoll wrote:
wietze wrote:Interesting concept. I myself am a fan of 3.2 Boiler over the SSE version, and usually only use the SSE version if I require some feature that the original version does not support. This sounds like music to my ears :)
Will download and check it out.

Yep, exactly the same here. Steem Debugger 3.2 is well done tool, and is perfect for 98% of SW. So, why not using it most time.
On the other side, I don't see why we need Boiler v. of LE . Boiler is not for beginners :D


Yeah, I suppose my mind is malformed. I never think of the non-boiler emulator whenever I read something at all, so that was my bad for assuming it'd be a boiler edition, but stemming from 3.2 :)...

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Re: Steem LE

Postby Steven Seagal » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:45 am

I removed more confusing features. Only 2 ST models, STF and STE.
No alt-RAM or LaceScan...
No cartridge. Who uses them?
Clearly, it's a build for people who just want to play games or check demos.
Could go further... HD emu? :mrgreen:

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Re: Steem LE

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:54 am

Steven Seagal wrote:I removed more confusing features. Only 2 ST models, STF and STE.
No alt-RAM or LaceScan...
No cartridge. Who uses them?
Clearly, it's a build for people who just want to play games or check demos.
Could go further... HD emu? :mrgreen:

I think that HD emulation is good, and can make gaming much simpler in certain cases - no need to swap those floppy images, for instance.
Negative feedback has usually positive effect.

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Re: Steem LE

Postby Steven Seagal » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:52 am

Of course. And Steems' PRG/TOS support depends on GEMDOS HD emu.
I will remove Steem SSE's "native" ACSI support as fewer people use that and it's in Pasti anyway.

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Re: Steem LE

Postby Steven Seagal » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:47 pm

Not many responded but those who did seem to prefer an 'advanced' switch, so I've been pondering...

I gave reasons why not, but there are also reasons why:
- One main build vs two (LE and 'pro') ,so less confusion
- People are used to a switch in other programs
- I advertise features like Hardware Overscan, but then they're not present in the main build?

Even gave it a go:

advanced_1.png

Not all features are available

advanced_2.png

Ouch!
This would also unlock options for CPU speed etc., but I haven't done that yet.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: Steem LE

Postby Steven Seagal » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:53 pm

When 'advanced' isn't checked, all 'advanced' options are reset to default. So if you change things in 'advanced' mode, you must stay in this mode or changes will be reverted.
The option is saved in your ini file. You can save configuration files.

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Re: Steem LE

Postby ijor » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:33 pm

Steven Seagal wrote:Not many responded but those who did seem to prefer an 'advanced' switch, so I've been pondering...


Now you can advertise ... "we listen to the customers" :)

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Re: Steem LE

Postby Cyprian » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:12 pm

nice
Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Aranym / Steem / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

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Re: Steem LE

Postby itaboy » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:27 am

the "Advanced/Expert" switch is the best option, in my opinion. Nice work, anyway!


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