Firebee and old soft

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sashapont
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Firebee and old soft

Postby sashapont » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:42 pm

I want buy my first Atari, but I don't understand clearly...

On main page of firebee.com I see text
"A FireBee is similar to an Atari Falcon and works very much like that. It will run most of the Atari compatible software that would run on a Falcon."
Is it true or false?

Firebee has emutos

Peoples say, that all Atari soft will not work :(


Can I execute games for Atari STE and for falcon on firebee?
Like
http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-st-great-giana-sisters-_s9385.html
or
http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-st-aazohm-krypht-falcon030_21759.html
Last edited by sashapont on Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby Orion_ » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:46 pm

no, Firebee is not for games, it's for running GEM compatible application, there is a lots of things yet not working properly on this "computer", and more than 5 years after its release, there has been no major improvement at all (video is still slow, no dsp, no ps2, etc...)
definitely not worth the high price. (for the same price, a falcon is more profitable)
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby sashapont » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:54 pm

Thank you for answer, Are there any list of gem softwares?
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby frank.lukas » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:55 pm

Or buy a MIST for ST/STE Games and other Stuff ...
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby fidzen » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:56 pm

Here's a site listing some compatible software for the Firebee.

http://www.atariuptodate.de/en/firebee/
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby penguin » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:12 pm

sashapont wrote:I want buy my first Atari, but I don't understand clearly...

On main page of firebee.com I see text
"A FireBee is similar to an Atari Falcon and works very much like that. It will run most of the Atari compatible software that would run on a Falcon."
Is it true or false?

Firebee has emutos

Peoples say, that all Atari soft will not work :(


FireBee is more of a successor of Atari clones such as the Medusa and Milan. You actually can choose between two operating systems, TOS 4 and EmuTOS. EmuTOS on the FireBee will only run applications compiled natively for the FireBee's Coldfire CPU.

The compatibility list will give you an idea what kind of apps will work on the FB:
https://www.atariuptodate.de/en/firebee/

The list is far from complete of course, as no one goes through the whole software library to check compatibility. Arkanoid was patched to run on the FireBee. Any other ST low games will not work, Falcon games and applications are also incompatible. Most GEM compatible applications will work, with the notable exception of Calamus SL. AtariUptoDate also includes a list of GEM games.

In short, picking a FireBee as your first Atari is a bad idea. You should pick up an ST or STE and one of the hardware peripherals that allow you to use modern memory cards on the system (Gigafile, CosmosEx and others).
AtariUpToDate - Atari ST/TT/Falcon software database and version tracker: http://www.atariuptodate.de
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby sashapont » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:26 pm

Thank you very much! Now I all understanв! I decide buy falcon. Or is it possible to run vga falcon games on STE?
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby christos » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:37 pm

sashapont wrote:Thank you very much! Now I all understanв! I decide buy falcon. Or is it possible to run vga falcon games on STE?


I would suggest trying the Falcon games on Hatari first and see if you like any of them enough to buy a real machine. Most people (especially people who originate from the Amiga) think that the falcon is some kind of an ultimate games machine. It's not even close. There are some very good ones but you'll mostly run patched ST games.
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby sashapont » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:41 pm

christos wrote:I would suggest trying the Falcon games on Hatari first and see if you like any of them enough to buy a real machine. Most people (especially people who originate from the Amiga) think that the falcon is some kind of an ultimate games machine. It's not even close. There are some very good ones but you'll mostly run patched ST games.


Yes I like amiga! I had 1200 and now have pegasos with amorphous and SAM with amiga os4.

Is it possible to run games and soft for st on falcon without patching?
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby jury » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:05 pm

As chritstos above suggested. Try Falcon games on Hatari first ( there is so little amount of them, that its possible to check'em all one evening ;) ), as this machine is quite expensive and if you want it to buy it for games its definitely not a good idea.
The list of Falcon specific games can be found here:
http://christophe.bray.free.fr/informat ... n_jeux.htm

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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby joska » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:24 pm

Orion_ wrote:(video is still slow,


People probably say that because they use 32-bit modes as they think more is better. But it's not. 16-bit means 50% less traffic on the flex-bus (CPU->FPGA) which is the real bottleneck. I'm using (well, "using" as I'm not really using my Firebee anymore. But that has other reasons) 1920x1080 in 16-bit and it's faster than any real Atari I have. Only the ATI-cards in my Falcon/Afterburner and Milan is faster.

Orion_ wrote:(for the same price, a falcon is more profitable)


Yes, and for a fraction of the price you can buy an ST, so the ST must be a better buy, right? ;)

The Falcon is a Falcon - it runs Falcon software very well but it runs GEM software very slowly. The Firebee does not run anything that needs a Falcon and no games/demos for the ST. However, that applies to the Milan and Hades too. That does not make it a bad machine. Running GEM-software on the Firebee in large resolution is great, you "just" need to accept that things goes wrong until you've figured out what works and what doesn't.

The only reason why my Firebee is no longer my main Atari is that MiNT does not support memory protection on it. So I switched back to the Milan a few years ago.

A Falcon is a better buy if you want to use stuff like Apex Media, or soundtrackers, or watch (or make) Falcon demos. An STE is a better buy if you just want to play games.
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby sashapont » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:08 pm

Yes now I understand. I try to game some games in Hatari. In Atari camp situation is like in Amiga. In pegasos amigos 4.1 Is not working all old amiga games without emulation. But some soft is work. In conclusion decide for me: ST->there are no modern soft, Falcon is expensive and rare and old. And firebee is good solution for modern soft and has emu for cpu emuling for old games. If anybody decide to sell firebee, I want will be first buyer!
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby jfl » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:40 am

joska wrote:
Orion_ wrote:(video is still slow,

People probably say that because they use 32-bit modes as they think more is better. But it's not. 16-bit means 50% less traffic on the flex-bus (CPU->FPGA) which is the real bottleneck.

I was intrigued by this so I tried the 16bit mode on my FireBee. I can't say that I've noticed any significant difference. Not with the programs I'm using, anyway. Scrolling pages in QED was maybe ever so slightly faster. But that's about it.
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby mikro » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:25 am

sashapont wrote:Yes now I understand.

And firebee is good solution for modern soft and has emu for cpu emuling for old games. If anybody decide to sell firebee, I want will be first buyer!

This makes me think you are still thinking too "amiga minded" about the situation. No, you wont get any ST games running on the FireBee at all except those specially patched which are highly GEM compatible anyway (read: maybe five of them).

Yes, there have been (were) plans for a Falcon compatible DSP, extensions via the FPGA but nothing has happened yet. For years. So I can assure you that you wont play one single ST game on the FireBee in very far future, unfortunately.

EDIT: And no, there are no emulators.

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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby sashapont » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:59 pm

mikro wrote:
sashapont wrote:Yes now I understand.

EDIT: And no, there are no emulators.


Is it working?
http://www.atariuptodate.de/en/5951/68kemu
http://www.atariuptodate.de/en/509/hatari-atari
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby penguin » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:29 pm

sashapont wrote:
mikro wrote:
sashapont wrote:Yes now I understand.

EDIT: And no, there are no emulators.


Is it working?
http://www.atariuptodate.de/en/5951/68kemu
http://www.atariuptodate.de/en/509/hatari-atari


Yes and no. Some programs won't run without 68kemu, like Artis 4.0.
Hatari/Atari is a straight port with no optimizations. AFAIK, it's not usable, just a proof of concept.

So it's basically the same as having no emulators, at least none of the two will get you anywhere near full ST compatibility at native speed.
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Re: Firebee and old soft

Postby joska » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:49 pm

sashapont wrote:Is it working?
http://www.atariuptodate.de/en/5951/68kemu


This only emulates the CPU, and is used to run applications that does not run under the ColdFire "68k". No other hardware is emulated, so this can't be used to run games or any other software that expects hardware to act as on a genuine Atari.

sashapont wrote:http://www.atariuptodate.de/en/509/hatari-atari


The Firebee is not fast enough to run Hatari at a usable speed. Only an Atari emulator (!) like ARAnyM can do that.

It is 100% possible to implement/emulate legacy hardware good enough to run most ST/Falcon software on the Firebee. But no-one has done this so far. If you want a real computer to run Falcon/ST games on you need a Falcon or ST. Preferably both :) With a Falcon and an STE you can run virtually anything created for this platform.
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