FireBee revival

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vido
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FireBee revival

Postby vido » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:49 am

Hello everyone!

There is not much acivity on the "FireBee scene" so it would be great if there would be some more activities regarding it. No activities demotivate users and mostly developers to support the platform fo it would be great to organize ourself to show the others we are here and alive! :)

There is not totaly without new progress regarding our platform. MiNT is developing further and FireBee is supported. The same EmuTOS. Olivier is supporting FireBee with his great MyAES. Lonny the same with "his" GFA Basic support, ... NetSurf is developed further and it also still supports Coldfire version, ...

But there is a lot it can be done. Mostly it would be great to find and motivate some FPGA developers to jump to the FireBee boat. There is a lot it can be improved and add. There is still enougt free unused space on the FireBee FPGA for improvements. There is quite some FPGA developers supporting MiST. I dream about MiST core to be added to the FireBee to run in parallel and output video in GEM window on FireBee desktop. I am not 100% sure this is possible (that should other more skilled developers enlightened me) but out of my knowledge I think it is possible. That would greatly improve FireBee usability with old ST software and games.

There is also need to improve exixting FPGA with fixing bugs and imrove functionality. But that is actualy work in progress. Fredi started this and also delivered something. I hope he will continue and deliver official version to be released.

It would be also great fo see new software to be released for our platform. As of before mentioned examples I would like to see new ports of SDL software to our platform. Also some old software to be patched to work on the FireBee would be great. Most of all I would like to see NVDI 4 of Speedo GDOS to be patched as because of the bug in NVDI5 we cant use PH PDF to print from our applications to PDF.

And this could go on ...

So ... I would like to see that users and developers start to cummunicate on this forum to see what users would like to see in future and ideas how to achieve that, how to motivate developers to support us?
I guess the users activity also motivate developers ... :)

And one more thing ...
This is community project and not the Mathias project altought mailny it seems so. I guess mostly because he is most active and he is the driving force which it makes the FireBee is reality. Some of you maybe dont share his view how things should go on ... but we can organize ourself to do some progress.
I think Mathias is exhausted by this project as he gets very little help by the others but we expect form him to deliver product only by his volunteer work. Yes, this is his decision but he could just drop everything ...

So ...
any thoughts how to go on?
Maybe FireBee meeting, party, ... bounties, ... ;)

Vido

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby mpattonm » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:02 am

First I thought the title reads "Firebee rival" and and I said to myself "finally!", but then I have read your message and I realized my mistake. Well what shall I say...I keep my fingers crossed, but I do not hold my breath.

vido wrote:This is community project and not the Mathias project altought mailny it seems so. I guess mostly because he is most active and he is the driving force which it makes the FireBee is reality. Some of you maybe dont share his view how things should go on ... but we can organize ourself to do some progress.
I think Mathias is exhausted by this project as he gets very little help by the others but we expect form him to deliver product only by his volunteer work. Yes, this is his decision but he could just drop everything ...

Now this will sound harsh, but I think his methods, the way he acted and decitions he took might be one of the reasons quite a few people left the team and why there is in fact no real progress on it. There is a good reason why HW/SW design decitions should be made by engineers, not musicians.

vido wrote:I think Mathias is exhausted by this project as he gets very little help by the others but we expect form him to deliver product only by his volunteer work. Yes, this is his decision but he could just drop everything ...

No wonder.

Sorry, I wish I were more optimistic here.

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby vido » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:26 am

mpattonm wrote:Now this will sound harsh, but I think his methods, the way he acted and decitions he took might be one of the reasons quite a few people left the team and why there is in fact no real progress on it. There is a good reason why HW/SW design decitions should be made by engineers, not musicians.

Well ... I agree with you that some people left the team because they dont agree with him. But he is just one of us and he is really working = living for this project. But maybe it seem so but this doesnt have to be his project! If someone left the team he could organise his team or join the other team. Everything is open so you dont have to be part of one team to do something.

I would like to see Mathias to continue his work and the others to work on their own projects regardles what mathias is doing. I think he also would like to see that. I see there potential people who could be the leaders of the "independent" teams like Vincent, Markus, even Mikro (without FireBee) who could be more open ...

I think we should start discusion to this direction with ideas, proposals, ... just to bring some positive wibes to this platform.
Being dependant of one person who dont earn anythig of his work at all is utopic!

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby mikro » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:15 pm

Although I certainly have my differences with Mathias, I can promise you one hardcore thing coming up pretty soon *also* to the FireBee (wouldn't bother coding something FireBee-only ;)). GEM window, colours, sounds, all of it. And no, it's not an mxPlay update although I should look at that as well. ;)

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby vido » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:22 pm

Great Mikro! That is the positive vibe we need! :)
Can you be more specific about time or what is it ...?
If not, also no problem to me ... I will wait ;)

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby lp » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:55 pm

vido wrote:There is not totaly without new progress regarding our platform. MiNT is developing further and FireBee is supported. The same EmuTOS. Olivier is supporting FireBee with his great MyAES. Lonny the same with "his" GFA Basic support, ... NetSurf is developed further and it also still supports Coldfire version, ...


Thanks for the mention. GFA v3.7 is in the works. My goal is to expand the AES, VDI, Bios, Xbios, and Gemdos libraries. This way one can focus all attention on coding the main application and forget about hand made bindings. There's no FireBee beta currently, but that can change. ;)

Anyone who wishes to help test or make suggestions can follow my progress at my public google drive:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby Rajah Lone » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:26 pm

Still working on my "reloaded" project, but I afraid I can't propose any release before several months. Adding levels 2 to 5 means a huge graphics work and I have few free time to do it at the moment. More time next year.

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby vido » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:40 pm

Sorry Rajah not to mention you!
Your support with your applications is really great and means a lot!
Great to hear you are working on your project. Looking forward about it :)

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby wongck » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:56 am

Hey... Thanks for the mention :D

For past few months, my Falcon/CT63 is on my desk. But soon the FB will be out.
But I continue to make updates to my programs whenever times permit.
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Re: FireBee revival

Postby christos » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:29 pm

As much as I would have liked to be a FireBee owner I can't really afford it. However it's not really an issue of not having much support for the FireBee but an issue that our community is generally speaking less productive than others so the subset that is the firebee gets even less releases.
I guess we could do better. Then the firebee will be benefited as well.
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Re: FireBee revival

Postby vido » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:47 pm

I didnt explicitly mentioned you Wongck. I am sorry! You deserve it for sure! Your applications are new production and exactly what Atari and FireBee community needs. I use PHGmap a lot. Time and weather gadgets are great too. Actualy I like PH PDF the most but without NVDI4 or speedogdos working on the FireBee is useless :(
Waiting for your new updates ... :)

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby vido » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:03 pm

christos wrote:As much as I would have liked to be a FireBee owner I can't really afford it. However it's not really an issue of not having much support for the FireBee but an issue that our community is generally speaking less productive than others so the subset that is the firebee gets even less releases.
I guess we could do better. Then the firebee will be benefited as well.

If one or two good FPGA developers would join FireBee community (not necesary team) then FireBee could be much more atractive computer. There is still room to improve/fix a lot of things and there is space in FPGA to add new functionality.
Then there is room to update or make libraries that new software would benefit of using them or just recompile old software using them. Coldfire has EMACS instructions which adds some functionality as DSP do for the Falcon. As example, using them in LDG codecs it would mean Zview, Wongcks software, ... would benefit from running on the FireBee indirectly.

Well ... as you mentioned ... Atari community in general with some bright exceptions is not that much active.
So I would like to hear ideas from anyone how to change that?

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby christos » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:53 pm

Well David Galvez had the right idea. Make GEM wrappers for open source applications. A python port would help as well. Add an applications category in demo parties or something silly like that. However most things are integration with cloud or web nowadays. Also we need a software repo and a software center.
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Re: FireBee revival

Postby wongck » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:13 am

You can actually already do printing over the cloud to any printer connect to the Internet today on an connected Atari today using Google cloud Print. A byproduct of it is that you can store any documents into the Google Drive by printing it to PDF and store it on Google Drive.

What's missing is just direct desktop interaction with Google Drive which is the sixth project on my todo list. it was on my list since 2014.
Granted that these are all Google related but I know some of you guys consider them the Dark side.
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Re: FireBee revival

Postby wongck » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:23 am

vido wrote:I didnt explicitly mentioned you Wongck. I am sorry!


No need to apologies, you cannot put all names on the page. It will be several KB if you do. :P
Just mentioned on the programs will do.
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Re: FireBee revival

Postby vido » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:00 pm

christos wrote:Well David Galvez had the right idea. Make GEM wrappers for open source applications. A python port would help as well. Add an applications category in demo parties or something silly like that. However most things are integration with cloud or web nowadays. Also we need a software repo and a software center.

I had a similar idea about GEM wrappers for unix open source applications. Python port would be nice, but I dont see much benefit from that.
Porting sone SDL applications/games would be great. There are some ported applications as Scummvm, OpenTTD, MiniVmac, ... which works quite well totaly unoptimized for the FireBee. If someone would do some optimizations they woulod be really usable applications. I really like OpenTTD myself and if it would run a bit faster it would be real pleasure for me to play. Still I play it a lot :)

Are there any coders who would take a look into that code?
Mikro and Olivier were there to port those applications but they have their other projects to work with, not having time to optimise I guess?
There are still a lot of SDL applications/games waiting to be ported ;)

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby vido » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:05 pm

wongck wrote:You can actually already do printing over the cloud to any printer connect to the Internet today on an connected Atari today using Google cloud Print. A byproduct of it is that you can store any documents into the Google Drive by printing it to PDF and store it on Google Drive.

What's missing is just direct desktop interaction with Google Drive which is the sixth project on my todo list. it was on my list since 2014.
Granted that these are all Google related but I know some of you guys consider them the Dark side.

So I can with PH Easy Remote Print output PDFs using Google clud Print? If yes, this is a great news :)
Dont worry about the Dark side. :)
I am looking forward to your new productions ... :)

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby mikro » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:24 pm

ScummVM and OpenTTD are in queue (after zView and mxPlay which are in queue after the secret project ;)). All of the projects need some treatment, nothing serious but it requires time and investigation.

However I'm afraid there's going to be some gap after October (so-so to finish the secret project) because I'll be literally in the wilderness (Tasmania) until (European) Spring 2018 (and then back to Europe, yay!).

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby wongck » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:46 pm

vido wrote:So I can with PH Easy Remote Print output PDFs using Google clud Print? If yes, this is a great news :)

I looked at the PHSW update page.... was done nearly 3 years back...
PHERP.JPG
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Re: FireBee revival

Postby vido » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:29 am

wongck wrote:
vido wrote:So I can with PH Easy Remote Print output PDFs using Google clud Print? If yes, this is a great news :)

I looked at the PHSW update page.... was done nearly 3 years back...
PHERP.JPG

I know that! :)
I didnt know you can output PDF-s using Google clud Print service ;)

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby vido » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:06 am

mikro wrote:ScummVM and OpenTTD are in queue (after zView and mxPlay which are in queue after the secret project ;)). All of the projects need some treatment, nothing serious but it requires time and investigation.

However I'm afraid there's going to be some gap after October (so-so to finish the secret project) because I'll be literally in the wilderness (Tasmania) until (European) Spring 2018 (and then back to Europe, yay!).

Nice to see those apps are in the queue by you :)
I agree with your priority list. I would like to find also someone else who has the knowledge to take a look about porting and oprimizing some apps.
And I just hope you will be back from the wildeness! Is sounds dangerous ;)
Maybe it would be cool to return back with some agressive Atari contagious fewer ;)

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby Mathias » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:50 am

mpattonm wrote:Now this will sound harsh, but I think his methods, the way he acted and decitions he took might be one of the reasons quite a few people left the team and why there is in fact no real progress on it. There is a good reason why HW/SW design decitions should be made by engineers, not musicians.


I don't know what you are imagining, when you write such postings.
There was only 1 person who really left the team, and thats years ago.
I never took any decisions for anybody except myselve. I also never decided anything about the hardware or software, that was always done by the developers. And finally I am not a musician.

So I do not know where you got your informations from. But I would be careful, as these are simply lies. If you like to critizice "my methodes" do so, name them, but do not state wrong facts!

Do we know personally from any Atari meeting in České Budějovice or Olomouc? I am willing to belive, that you heard some rumors, and as you do not have any insights, just guess some things.
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Re: FireBee revival

Postby Omikronman » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:17 pm

You are a musician?! May I have missed your Bee-House-Rock or something?! :-?

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Re: FireBee revival

Postby warp12 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:07 pm

I pre-ordered. Am I still on the list? Not sure what is going on...it has been a long time.
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Re: FireBee revival

Postby alienkidmj12 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:37 pm

if someone could help me locate the eiffel 3 design file, then i would atleast be able to power mine on, all i have at the moment is a boot menu which i cannot get past as i have no mouse or keyboard.


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