I finally have a TT!

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EmpireAndrew
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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:32 pm

Clever device, I may get one someday.
I want to try and use things from the period though, at least as far as possible, for example CRT monitors even though LCD's are of course better.
My only concession to modern day stuff is buying a couple of NetUSBee's for networking, and an Ultra Satan for the STE until I get hold of a period correct external hard drive.
Mainly because I want my retro corner to look genuinely retro, only quesrion is, how long before the old tech annoys me and I start modernizing it?
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby skeezix » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:13 pm

CosmosEx can do networking as well, as I understand it; didn't look that far yet. But I am with you; I'm partial to old amber text only monitors, too, for PC-geekery ;)

You can buy new TT monitors from B&C for not bad value, IIRC.

Retro is awesome of course, but at some point... for me, its stereo gear; buddy of mine restores old stereo gear, and its amazing. The big stainless steal knobs, gorgeous :) You buy an old rig, replace the caps, clean the brushes, and some other stuff, and 'good as new.' .. back in the day, we all had entertainment units up against the wall, and they stuck way out into the room; we all had a big room for that purpose ... it was a sign of the times. Nowadays we tend to smaller rooms (?), and you have an apartment for instance. Fitting old style audio gear in, as awesome as it is, is a hard sell. Old TVs .. well, a flatscreen fits nicely on the wall or a thin unit; but them beefy old CRTs look great on the screen, big and fuzzy, but weigh 200 pounds and stick 3 feet into the room? Tough sell.

So yeah, I was hardcore for a long time, but you've nailed it.. now its retro at some convenience. Course, I do arcade machines, so I've got some Big Stuff already, had to cut down on other stuff :O

You're still going strong.. got the printer :) Have to print out something, and record it. Calamus printing out a poster. Oh yeah.

jeff
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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:31 pm

Yeah I was into the stereo stuff too, wouldn't think of trying to get floor standers into the apartment these days though, no matter how much better they sounded.
I have plenty of modern computer stuff, it's amazing what some of the tiny fanless stuff can do when you think about it and I love my big 34" ultrawide screen.
It's very much a luxury I can have these 2 desks for retro gear, and once they have machines on them, well, adding a couple of CRT's doesn't take up any more space.
Of course, adding an old BBC micro, Sun Sparc Station, Indigo 2 etc would take up ore space and realistically it's out of the question... :(
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:44 am

OK, another day, another update...

The top half of the case got a day in the peroxide tank, even though it was white to begin with.
The bottom half got it's 2nd day in the tank.

The top pic is how it looked when I bought it, the bottom pic is this evening. The top half didn't get more yellow, it's just the white balance on the iPhone. The key thing is both halves are now the same color (white):
Image


The key caps have now also had 2 days in the peroxide tank.
The top photo is how they looked when I bought the machine, the middle photo is after 1 day in the tank (3% peroxide and Oxyclean), the bottom photo is after the 2nd day in the tank (7% peroxide and Oxyclean):
Image

I need to put the keyboard casing in the tank one more day to try and even out the grey. Also, it's hard to see it but the keys are still a little grungy and uneven, so they also need another day.

But I'm out of fluid so whether or not I continue tomorrow depends on whether or not I can find any locally.
If not, I'm out of time this week and will just reassemble as I have other commitments, but overall I'm very pleased.

image.jpeg


I'm not sure if the OxyClean helps at all, or whether the layer of foam it creates on the fluid surface is detrimental as maybe it blocks the UV light?

I'd say buy 7% peroxide from wherever is cheapest by the gallon and mix 1:1 with water.

You'll need at least a 23" x 16" x 6" container (I paid $10 for a clear Sterilite one), and 3.0-3.5 gallons of the fluid to do the case, the remaining half gallon can do the keyboard keys in a separate container. You'll need another 1-2 gallons to do the keyboard casing.

This is for each session. I don't know if the fluid can work for several days, but I used fresh fluid each day and you'll take at least 2 days.
The stuff I used cost me over $8 per gallon from Amazon inc delivery (should be cheaper if you're not paying shipping as it's heavy?). I watered down the 7% fluid by 50% for the case (but full strength for keyboard) so 6 gallons of 7% cost me about $50 and lasted 2 days. I'll need another gallon or two to finish off the keyboard casing due to my mistake of not fully covered by it.

A blue sky with some clouds seems to stop the whole thing heating up too much, I wouldn't do it in hot sun.
It seemed to work fairly well in overcast conditions, but slower (wastes the fluid a bit maybe?).

Make sure the whole thing is fully submerged to avoid streaking or blooming. Weigh it down with water filled glass on top if need be.
Stir the keys in the container every half hour.
I also set the containers down on reflective kitchen foil, and put a wall behind and to the side of them of the same.

Wear gloves. The stuff does burn albeit gently.
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1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:56 pm

So I re-assembled the system today, and it fired straight up, and my adjustments to the CaTTamaran installation were also successful!

Items left on my to do list:

1. Fix the Power LED which despite being plugged in does not work.
2. Wasn't sure which 2 of the 3 pins the speaker was supposed to plug in to so test that and correct if necessary.
3. Figure out how to attach the HDD LED to the HDD as the jumper pins are a different size.
4. Figure out the specs for the factory case screws as this case has no screws whatsoever in it.

But other than that, I'm thrilled!
It looks great now and is basically fully working with the accelerator according to the integer math and ram access results. 8)

Image

Image

Image

I'll grab a US TT keyboard as soon as I can find one, and a 19" mono TT monitor from one of the usual suppliers.

This was time well spent! :D
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby FedePede04 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:25 am

nice work, thx for sharing.
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sometime my English is a little weird, Google translate is my best friend :)

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby skeezix » Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:43 am

Looks fantastic; very nice peroxide job!

(hows the keyboard?)

Did you identify what was up with the Cattamaran? Or did it just need a good take-apart-and-assemble exercise to clean the dust from between the header pins and sockets and so-forth?

jeff
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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:12 am

It's a bit dark now the sun has long gone down, and the TT is in a part of the room that's poorly lit. But here it is:

Image

As you can see the key tops are still slightly yellow, and the keyboard casing is a patchy finish between clean grey and dirty grey.
Basically the casing and the caps need at least one more day in the peroxide tank, but I had no time today so just re-assembled everything.
Once I get a TT keyboard I'll finish off this keyboard.
Although it doesn't look as "new" as the TT the keyboard is still a massive improvement over how it looked originally.


As for the Cattamaran... The green probe lead was plugged in to the wrong leg on a chip. I moved it two pins along (per some German language instructions I found for this revision of TT motherboard) and it worked immediately. The clip was on there good I struggled a little to disconnect it initially so I think it's always been this way.

Also, the F keys seem to have woken up as they weren't doing anything on the boot loader screen originally, but now they do. Maybe the keyboard mylar is iffy? Not that it matters at the moment.

I now need to figure out how to backup everything on the hard drive, not sure if I can connect my UltraSatan to a TT? I do have an ACSI cable on the way for it for the purposes of using it as a HDD on my STE...
Last edited by EmpireAndrew on Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby skeezix » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:26 am

Backing it up would be excellent; I forget which hard disk driver it is (probably hddriver), so you should get it backed up in case you need it again, or for evidence (hddriver still supported etc.) Its also a pretty solid disk, with lots of installed and working apps .. be good for archive sake to have a snapshot of a working image. If you get it backed up, I'd be interested in a copy :O

Well done; I'm very glad it went to you, whose already done so much with it :)

jeff
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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:38 am

I'll get it backed up somehow. Never had a tech problem I couldn't solve! For sure I'll package up a backup for you when I do.

I've figured out who the original owner is btw.

The machine will have a good home here, I'm an Atari fan since 1990 and I take good care of stuff, with no expense spared...
Last edited by EmpireAndrew on Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:48 am

I forgot to mention, the clock battery was dead too, I have a new one arriving by Friday.
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby Atari030 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:43 am

Looking good, mate. What LCD are you using? The display looks centered from here. Not easy on a TT.

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:44 pm

It's a Samsung Syncmaster 245B.
But it's not centered, right border is double the width of the left. It does adjust to center but then some white border is missing...
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby Atari030 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:25 pm

Bugger. I was hoping for a miracle fix. :-) My ASUS does the same. Someone was selling an adapter that looks like it cures the problem, I've been meaning to look into that.

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:21 pm

I needed a mouse for my TT as I only have the STM-1 which came with my STE and of course that belongs to said STE.

Back in the day I had upgraded from the STM-1 as it was never exactly ergonomic, and what I had was a Golden Image mouse, not the optical version which required a special muse pad, the cheaper ball based one.

I found a couple of optical versions for sale on eBay (sans the required special mouse pad) but finally I found a ball based one just like I had back in the 90's, for sale in Germany. A bit of Google translate to help me with the process and some comms to the seller to persuade then to ship to the USA, and voila, it arrived yesterday!

The rollers were in a shocking state, and the mouse was very dirty, but some cotton bud work with isopropyl alcohol got the rollers into a useable fairly smooth state, but I'll work on them some more when I have time. I also have it a good rub with the isopropyl alcohol to try and clean it up as I didn't want to pull it apart and peroxide it in case (A) I break it, (B)I would have to damage the stickers underneath and maybe the pads(?) and (C) the logos on it are already a little faded and I don't know what peroxide will do to them.
But regardless it looks pretty good.

I seem to remember Golden Image were based in the UK, I even had or borrowed from a friend (I forget) their hand scanner that you dragged over pages to scan stuff in. I wonder what happened to them?

Image
Last edited by EmpireAndrew on Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:23 pm

On the downside the F1 key seems to have packed up again on the MegaSTE keyboard so I'll have to pull it apart and do some surgery, I'm hoping some silver paint (like is used to repair car rear window heater lines) will get the job done. Of course I may just buy a new mylar and be done with it...
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby Bama » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:22 pm

Please share the technique by which you are safely removing the keyboard key caps. I'd like to clean my MegaSTE keyboard.
:-)
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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:51 pm

I use a key cap puller:
http://amzn.to/2aAIuir

But you don't strictly need one, you can even do it by hand, the trick is to pull upwards *straight* so as not to risk snapping anything with sideways forces. Yrs it does need some force and your fingers will hurt eventually if you do it without some sort of tool.

Before I bought this I used to use two tiny allen keys, one hooked under one edge, the other hooked under the other edge and then pull vertically.
But for the few $$ a keyboard puller costs it's a worthy investment imho.

Be careful with the space bar, return key and so on.
They have metal stabiliser bars that hook onto the keyboard top plate and clip into the key cap itself.
So pull up carefully, then unhook from the keyboard.
They are easy to refit, just hook the stabiliser bar onto the keyboard slots then center the key cap and push back down.
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby Bama » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:05 pm

Groovy, thanks!
:-)
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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:54 pm

I decided I wanted a good quality CRT monitor for retro stuff, and the NEC Multisync 3D's, which can do the 15KHz horizontal frequency needed by low res ST's are very hard to come by indeed, but I did manage to find a 19" Sony Trinitron (drool) Multiscan 420GS on Craigslist which will work fine for other things but for now will be used on the ST in low res via the Ambry line doubler.
The good thing was that it was local, the only marks were cracks forming on the outer casing from the two right hand corners of the screen, presumably due to mis handling but beggars can't be choosers. All said and done (I was obviously not carrying it on the bus, and I don't have a car any more) it owes me $100 but I think it was worth it as the picture is amazing and back in the day these things were about 800...
A 12 hour demo loop on the ST overnight and some testing this morning on the TT (not its ultimate home) and it looks like a good buy! 8)

Image

Image
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby skeezix » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:39 am

Nice :) Make some up clos screenies of ST-low and TT-high .. does it really turn out crystal clear on there?

I'm considering modding an STFM to have UltraSatan and HxC right inside the case, and maybe a gbs-8220 if I can fit in there somewhere (not likely, but you never know.) I've got to clean the case, since its yellowed _Serious_ .. I'll follow your advice from the TT for the work :)

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby qq1975b » Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:39 am

Looks really nice! congratulations.
Trying to learn...

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:41 pm

I'll take some photos, I've only tried it in TT-Medium so far, it won't work in TT-High without an adapter, but I have a new in box TTM195 arriving tomorrow hopefully.
One thing I do want to do is get the Cyrel Sunrise card I bought working so I can get color at 1280 resolution.
That card will not display anything on an LCD panel so far, but using a VGA capture card I was able to get output to that. But after a few seconds (1280x1024) or 1-2 minutes (640x480) the picture starts degrading until it goes black.
At one point it even turned the white to blue on the other monitor that was connected to the TT's native output at the same time, then it crashed with two bombs.
I then had the machine boot up without the card but with the driver, and the TT native output would show blue instead of white. I had to remove the driver completely.
I don't know if the card is faulty or not. One thing I do wonder is the NVRAM on it which was advertising as having a life of at least 10 years guaranteed. But we're now way past 20 years so maybe the NVRAM is (also?) a problem. Could be anything though, from config error to hardware...
I'll start a new post about it...
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!

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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby leech » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:01 pm

When I needed a new keyboard for my TT030 (my old one was tossed in the garbage heap by not-me...) I ended up getting a refurbished one from Best Electronics.

TT U.S. QWERTY Keyboard With keyboard cable, Reconditioned. CB101667-RE $120.00

http://best-electronics-ca.com/tt030.htm

The second I saw the gray keyboard there, I knew it was one for the MegaSTe, since I have both a TT030 and a MegaSTe.
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Re: I finally have a TT!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:30 pm

He doesn't actually have any, at least not on the shelf ready to go.
I keep chasing him on it every 2 weeks but he says his tech is busy fulfilling orders etc.
Given this is an order as much as any other I suspect he's either genuinely too busy to get to it, or he doesn't actually have any left to refurb and is trying to source one...
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!


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