Hard disk adapted games

A section to cover all the different problems encountered by running game x on system y! Whether it's as simple as a non-STE compatible game through to h/drive installable games. Discuss them all in here.

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Frank B
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Hard disk adapted games

Postby Frank B » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:32 pm

Hi. Has anyone had any luck with ppera's hard disk adapted games on Hatari?
I'd like to run Magic Boy but it keeps exiting back to the desktop after displaying the photochrome pic. Fire and Ice works OK but I can't get many of the other games to work on the emu which is a pity. I've tried different TOS images, memory configs etc but not had any luck :(

Edit: Also tried creating a floppy image, copying the games to it then booting off it so there's no mounted hard disk etc.

Still no luck :(

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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby Marcer » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:43 am

be careful when running his stuff. I have goosed up one of my pc hdds thanks to one of his fixes.. during testing them for my gamedvd.. it almost screwed my whole atari collection including my own tunes. So only test his stuff on a un-important partition! I have stopped testing and including his patches on my dvd since then!
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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby SofiST » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:45 pm

Those adaptations are in first place for real Atari machines and hard disks.
But they work all under Steem or Hatari - with very rare cases of problems as stucking, and such problems are caused because of inperfect IKBD and MFP emulation.

All adaptations where are files D15_R...FIC and similar work only from hard disks and only with PP, AHDI and Hddriver hard disk drivers. To achieve work under emulators (Steem and Hatari, not Saint) you need 'real' hard disk emulation, and not GEMDOS emulation. So, under Steem latest Pasti. Fresh Hatari version and ACSI or IDE emulation. Of course then you need yet image file(s) of hard disk (or card) content with drivers, preferably autoboot.
Easiest way is to DL images prepared: http://petari.000space.com/atari/DiskImgPP1.html
and using ACSI mode.

@Marcer: you could post your problems to PP as normal human and ask him for advice about how running stuff. What you wrote here is pure nonsense. No way that running any poo of SW via emulator screw PC hard disk.

But it looks that it goes so in this waters - someone must be culprit when someone's hard disk getting bad. And who is best candidate for it ? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby Marcer » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:00 pm

Maybe the stuff work proper under a specfic loaded hd image. but sorry cant have a setting for just testing stuff from one special cracker. then i would have 200+ settings :P well I know what happen and just wanted to tell ppl be careful. and I dont dare to keep on testing.. thats all and only my own point of action.
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- Elite (Atari Softs)
- The Legion (Demos)
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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby SofiST » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:36 pm

Marcer wrote:Maybe the stuff work proper under a specfic loaded hd image. but sorry cant have a setting for just testing stuff from one special cracker. then i would have 200+ settings :P well I know what happen and just wanted to tell ppl be careful. and I dont dare to keep on testing.. thats all and only my own point of action.


The problem with you was that you not listen, you not read instructions. It was told that using MSA images for hard disk stuff is insane, not to mention that you have MSA files of 2 and more MB :D Maybe you have ED floppy, but it is not so common, believe me . All PP adapts are packed with STZIP compatible ZIP format, so can unpack them on Ataris too (there is even video for beginners). I really don't see why MSA with it's primitive compression is better ?

Then, what you say about specific loaded hd image is again nonsense. There is nothing specific. Just turn on real hard disk emulation in emulator, select image and it will work. Change to other image, reboot, etc...

You can do real hard disk emulation from zero, if no image files, or no what to image (this is for all interested people) :

Create empty file of desired size, but not over 1GB, since ACSI can not handle more. (Can do it with some Hex editor, figure out yourself).
Then select that file as HD image in emulator. After it you need partitioning, driver. May load driver from floppy image, but of course is better to install autoboot driver. it goes exactly as on real machine: so need SW for paritioning etc. After it reboot and may copy files on. And it may be done very fast - by copying not from floppy images but mounted Windows DIR as GEMDOS partition.

Considering carefulnes of people: I advise that be careful with 'opinions' and experiences from such 'experts' as Marcer :lol:
I mean, you need to learn a lot about PC, Atari, hard disks etc. before judging what and why happened.

In any case, Marcer, please don't put PP's adapts on 'your' DVD. Nobody needs half year old stuff in useless format. DL is still free and usually fast. Not to mention that on site are even some instructions, helping SW etc.

Btw. , as this thread started with running HD adapt of Magic Boy on Hatari: I don't see why someone must run hard disk adapt under emulator, when is easy to get floppy images of that game. Only in case of multifloppy games running hd adapt. under emulator has sense - just to avoid image swaps.

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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby sh3-rg » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:10 pm

SofiST = Ppera? Or is that common knowledge? I may be LTTP.

The post just screams Ppera to me anyway. Or are there two uber-opinionated hungarian trolls who insult productive sceners & put stuff out that's downright dangerous to use?

"Considering carefulnes of people: I advise that be careful with 'opinions' and experiences from such 'experts' "


Err... yea... I advise people to be really careful as well, careful who's dodgy warez they put on their HDDs.

[EDIT: for clarity]
Last edited by sh3-rg on Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Frank B
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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby Frank B » Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:31 pm

Thanks for the replies. I'm not trying to start a flame war. :/

I'll try the hard disk image providing it works on Hatari. I think I tried this before and it wouldn't boot at all. In fact the game won't run even extracted onto an empty floppy image with no gemdos emulation enabled. :(

The reason I have the hard disk versions installed is because I extract them on the Mac then transfer them to a real STE using Satan disk. I have the same collection on the real and emulated machine.
I've got all the games sorted alphabetically and when time permits I plan on writing an old school intro front end for launching games. I'm 1000 miles away from my ST collection so I'm stuck with emulators for now. As new games are patched I add them to the hard disk and copy them back to the ST.

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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby havoc » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:02 pm

sh3-rg wrote:SofiST = Ppera?

yep, it's ppera allright...

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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby Marcer » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:30 pm

none of my msa files are bigger than 1.44mb disk images.. as what I recall atleast falcon machines have this size? and if you have trouble to read the disk. depack the content with jaymsa.

Why use msa.. I felt it was the most all-around compatible format. maybe im stucked in the old days.. but atleast it wont screw up your hd :P

I will not remove anything from my FREE dvd collection.
- Atari ST/FM/E - Mega sTe - Portfolio - Falcon 030 FX 3 in 1 -- Atari 7800/Lynx/Jaguar -
- FTP... Ask for info
- Atari Legend (Games all-a-round)
- Paradize (Chip Music)
- Elite (Atari Softs)
- The Legion (Demos)
- Alive Maggie Team
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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby Frank B » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:46 pm

Ok the hard disk image worked. Thanks.

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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby Anemos » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:29 pm

@ Frank im using more than year all programs and all adapted games by petari, no problem! he make excellent work :cheers:
Atari 1040 STE - 4mb - TOS 1.62
Atari 1040 STF - 1mb - TOS 1.00

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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby Frank B » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:52 am

Anemos wrote:@ Frank im using more than year all programs and all adapted games by petari, no problem! he make excellent work :cheers:


I don't know why his games are tied to his own hard disk driver :(

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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby SofiST » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:39 am

Marcer wrote:none of my msa files are bigger than 1.44mb disk images.. as what I recall atleast falcon machines have this size? and if you have trouble to read the disk. depack the content with jaymsa.
Why use msa.. I felt it was the most all-around compatible format. maybe im stucked in the old days.. but atleast it wont screw up your hd :P
I will not remove anything from my FREE dvd collection.


I saw MSA images over 2MB. And even CJ complained about same thing. There is a lot of multifloppy adapts with over 3MB data, and you packed all that in single MSA files, at least it was so 1 year ago.
I do not ask that you remove anything. I just ask to listen to people who know little more about this things, people who spent a lot of time in all it. Not to mention that you are pretty ungrateful little b* , considering that pp did some stuff special for you in past.
Yes, I agree that you stucked in old days. Calling hard disk adapts (fixes, patches, whatever) "cracks" is pitty.
Screwing HD: how on Earth can some atari executable, what must be run via emulator on PC to screw any file outside of DIR, what you mounted as GEMDOS drive (partition). There is no way that some write outside that DIR occurs, because it is root of your GEMDOS partition. If something was really deleted, it could be only Hatari (or Steem bug), but I never heard about such thing, so what you talk is just nonsense and malicious crap.
I never experienced some data loss in last 15 years with any of my PCs. Despite it, I regulary backup everything on CDs. DVDs. Have over 10 DVD with Atari stuff. Most of things is saved 2-4 times. Complaning that some SW almost screwed your valuable datas just shows how wrong you do things. And if no SW what will harm your datas, hard disks can always break. And please, take all this as goodwilling advice, and try to advance yourself...

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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby SofiST » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:59 am

Frank B wrote:...
I don't know why his games are tied to his own hard disk driver :(


First to say: you should mail Petari instead posting here. Now we have stoopid thread where half posts has nothing with issue.
But glad that you resolved your problems. Of course, if you'd read some guides on site around, you could discover all it self. I say it because you obviously did not read usage page...
Games are not tied with own hard disk driver. But 'own" hard disk driver works best and fastest. It is because no need to reload driver by game start (what is inevitable with AHDI and Hddriver). Actually, a lot of time is spent to achieve work with AHDI and especially Hddriver. Another reason is that only PP drivers offer multi-partition TOS/DOS compatibility . AHDI works not at all with DOS partitioned hard disks. Hddriver works, but only 1 partition is possible, or more in pure DOS mode, but then you need BIGDOS too, what is not game-friendly. Third reason to forcing 'Own' driver is that it uses least RAM.
And one thing more: in era of Flash cards, it is easy to change used hard disk driver, even easy to change whole card content by writing image onto.

Why all this complications with game adaptations, why work not from floppies, from GEMDOS mounted partitions in emulators ? The answer is speed. Concepts like WHDLOAD by Amiga and it's Atari eq. ULS does perform large RAM swaps by every hard disk access during gameplay. And it means slow work when many short access is required and no enough RAM to create RAMdisk. GOS concept uses TOS 1.04 core in high RAM, so no need for RAM swaps by hard disk access. Of course, everything has his good and bad sides: GOS needs reload (or moving up) of hard disk driver, has same limits as TOS 1.04.
Beside speed, benefit of GOS is that it allows compatibility for games using TOS calls and not liking higher TOS versions. With it, making Prince of Persia to run under TOS 2.06 or on Falcon was pretty easy.

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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby sh3-rg » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:45 am

ppera wrote:Complaning that some SW almost screwed your valuable datas just shows how wrong you do things.


Ignoring polite reports from people who's data you have destroyed & telling them 'you're doing it wrong' is a bit arse. As is ripping off other people's work & passing it off as your own. As is misquoting CJ to your own ends. As is... etc. etc. etc.

Only Pperror makes it possible. Pure HungaroTroll Powa.
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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby cb » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:34 am

Good old Ppera is at it again! :lol:
Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam!
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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby jvas » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:49 am

sh3-rg wrote:Ignoring polite reports from people who's data you have destroyed & telling them 'you're doing it wrong' is a bit arse


So it is polite: "be careful when running his stuff. I have goosed up one of my pc hdds thanks to one of his fixes"
Ignoring: No, he didn't. See post: viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19597#p170388 He describes how to setup the emulator to run his adaptations.

sh3-rg wrote:As is ripping off other people's work & passing it off as your own.


Without proof it is just accusation. Btw. how is this related to this topic?

sh3-rg wrote: As is misquoting CJ to your own ends. As is... etc. etc. etc.


Would you please tell me what CJ is actually told!

sh3-rg wrote:Only Pperror makes it possible. Pure HungaroTroll Powa.


And this is trolling too

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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby Marcer » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:01 pm

wow... intressting thread this ended up with

ill igonre all bullshitting.. and my requests ppl fix for me, I try to be thankful over.. if I have forgotten to be greatful over these please let me know, then i have missed by misstake. I very greatful for each of worked or found missing soft i get!
- Atari ST/FM/E - Mega sTe - Portfolio - Falcon 030 FX 3 in 1 -- Atari 7800/Lynx/Jaguar -
- FTP... Ask for info
- Atari Legend (Games all-a-round)
- Paradize (Chip Music)
- Elite (Atari Softs)
- The Legion (Demos)
- Alive Maggie Team
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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby wongck » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:10 pm

Marcer, the appz collection from you ROCKZ :thumbs:
PPera, the tools collection from you ROCKZ :thumbs:
Both of you did tons for the community.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63+CTPCI_ATI_RTL8139 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
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Re: Hard disk adapted games

Postby Frank B » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:41 pm

SofiST wrote:
Frank B wrote:...
I don't know why his games are tied to his own hard disk driver :(


First to say: you should mail Petari instead posting here. Now we have stoopid thread where half posts has nothing with issue.
But glad that you resolved your problems. Of course, if you'd read some guides on site around, you could discover all it self.


OK thanks for your help and for calling me an idiot ;) A couple of issues though.

1) Your games don't work with hddriver (I'm assuming it's Ppera I'm talking to here) which is the most common hard disk driver on the ST. Is there any chance of fixing this? It would make a compilation of all ST hard disk installable games with a launcher possible which would be cool.

2) Many games don't work (except fire and ice) with no hard disk attached and copied to a blank floppy image. There is no hard disk driver loaded here at all.

This is why it *looks* like they are tied to your driver.

Anyway this thread isn't what I intended. It should be locked I think.


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