Trouble using FloImg or FdRawCmd

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jens
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Postby jens » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:27 am

I could, but I'm not at home atm. I can't say when I will find time for this as I'll have to reason about it with my old PowerMac and the scanner. ;)

We'll see.

But did not Claus Brod himself put Scheibenkleister on the web? :roll:

*edit*
It was just the software that was with the book that he put on the web. Look here.
Greetings, Jens

Falcon030 - TT030 - Mega/STe - 1040 STf - 520 ST+ - ST-Book - Milan 060

ppera

Postby ppera » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:25 pm

Here is FC Pro 1.1A in attachment.
Don't forget to play LIED.DAT by starting TITELSNG.PRG - really funny...
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Postby ijor » Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:29 pm

ppera wrote:Yes, I thought about that point of fast format is to avoid extra rotation before sectors checking. It works with 9 s/t, and track lead gap is not too small.But it is not so simple with 10 s/t


Yes, it is much more difficult with 10 sectors. It is possible that the fast format is faster only (with 10 s/t) when formatting without verifying. Then you certainly would gain one rotation per cylinder (not per track), when switching heads to format the second side.

Yeah, I know, not a very good idea to format without verify. But I do sometimes do it myself when I only need some kind of quick test.

I would need to make some tests to be sure. But it would require some work. There are multiple combinations. One side vs. two sides, with or without verify, format only vs. copy (with has an extra pass for writing the sectors). :(

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jens
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Postby jens » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:52 pm

Just read on Claus Brods page that floppies were fast formatted to later be faster readable as well.
Programs started faster from fast formatted disks than from 'normal' ones.

Remember - floppies were wide spread before hard drives became affordable.
Greetings, Jens

Falcon030 - TT030 - Mega/STe - 1040 STf - 520 ST+ - ST-Book - Milan 060

Lautreamont
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Postby Lautreamont » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:26 pm

ijor wrote:Then you certainly would gain one rotation per cylinder (not per track), when switching heads to format the second side.


Could you explain the difference between track and cylinder, Ijor ? Is it a general difference, or only ont he Atari ?

The docs I read often speak in terms of tracks/sides on the ST, and cylinders/heads on the PC.

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Postby ijor » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:40 pm

Lautreamont wrote:Could you explain the difference between track and cylinder, Ijor ?


The term cylinder was rarely used on the ST. As you say, we normally talked about tracks and sides. And when the term cylinder was used, manytimes they were talking about tracks.

But almost everywhere else it is common to use cylinder and track for two different things. Cylinder is the term to describe all the tracks at the same perpendicular (to the rotation) position. And tracks for each specific surface, that would vary according to the number of heads/sides.

This way, a 720K disk has actually 80 cylinders and 160 tracks.

I used the term "per cylinder" above to remark that the gain is only when formatting the other side (different track, same cylinder), and not after stepping the head (different cylinder).

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Postby Lautreamont » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:38 pm

ijor wrote:This way, a 720K disk has actually 80 cylinders and 160 tracks.


It's funny: I understand the term cylinder, especially when speaking of hard disks, but I would find very strange to read "Guaranteed 82 cylinders" or worse "Guaranteed 164 tracks" on a box of "guaranteed 82 tracks" floppy disks for my ST.

People could have used another word than the track/side we used to locate things to name their bag of cylinders and heads.

ppera

Postby ppera » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:38 am

jens wrote:Just read on Claus Brods page that floppies were fast formatted to later be faster readable as well.
Programs started faster from fast formatted disks than from 'normal' ones.
Remember - floppies were wide spread before hard drives became affordable.


What exactly 'fast format' means depends from program to program.
I think that we here explained techniques which speed-up read of floppies.

As you may see, even terms as track and cylinder have no exact meanings for all (cases).

ppera

Postby ppera » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:30 pm

I think that it is end of story. I will not try to read such floppies on PC. Leonard is probably gived up, communication works not...

There is many much more useful thing to do...

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Postby leonard » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:31 pm

ppera wrote:I think that it is end of story. I will not try to read such floppies on PC. Leonard is probably gived up, communication works not...

There is many much more useful thing to do...


Hi all !

Know what? I just read all that thread again 6 years after :)

Anyone has a new idea to read such floppies?
Leonard/OXYGENE.

obo
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Re: Trouble using FloImg or FdRawCmd

Postby obo » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:44 pm

Well, they're still unreliable with PC floppy controllers! The best I could do in SAMdisk was to warn if there appeared to be a sector missing from the start of the track -- it can tell that from the time between start of track and seeing the first sector header. I've tried other tricks to read them, including index-halving cables, but with mixed results (it seems to depend on the FDC).

6 years on, there are now some lower level USB-based floppy solutions, including Kryoflux and DiscFerret. I'm not sure how much software there is for them yet, but they're certainly capable of ready any possible floppy disc :)


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