Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

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Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby nagual » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:59 pm

First of all, happy New Year to all Atarians from forum :-))

Well, I just installed Linux Mint 18.3 64-bit, because of so many problems with Windows...
And, of course, I install Aranym 1.0.2-2 from Ubuntu repositorium without problems.
Everything working as expected unless fVDI - I can't set-up high resolution having on Windows version - 1600x900 in different depth, depends of my needs-(

Trying everything (new config files fVDI and Aranym, different resolutions etc..) - nothing works...
fVDI gave me 2 bombs, but I can't read what's really happend because aranym close too fast and back to Linux Mint but with different resolution - 640x480.

I'm pretty sure that I made some mistake but can't figured what exactly....
Can I switch to 32.bit version of Lin ux ?

Any idea, hint, advice ?

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby farvardin » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:10 pm

I don't know much Aranym, but can't you try this fVDI thing in Hatari as well?
You can't just switch to a 32 bit version of the whole distribution, but you can install at least the 32 bit version of aranym using this command:

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install aranym:i386


(I doubt it'll change something)

I've tried this, and I get now:

file /usr/bin/aranym
/usr/bin/aranym: ELF 32-bit LSB

Now I see I've configured aranym (I have version 0.9.15 in linux mint 17.3) to work with easymint, and it seems fvdi works out of the box with this (in 1024x765). Can you try that? (the package is from this distribution EasyAraMint: http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=26323 )

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby farvardin » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:16 pm

Here is a screenshoot of browsing Atari-Forum from EasyAraMint!

:D

aranym_2017-01-01.png
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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby Faucon2001 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:14 am

It's difficult to guide you without knowing what system you run on Aranym (TOS or emutos, Mint and Fvdi version, Afros, Easyaramint ?)
The first hypothesis is that the system your run on Aranym has something wrong : Try first with AFROS, it should work out of the box, then easyaramint as I have never had any issue with it on a Debian like 64 bits and high Rez (tested up to 1920x1200).
The second hypothesis, more likely, is that the Aranym build you use is not correct for your Linux Version:
Have you build Aranym yourself on your system or just used the build from Aranym site? I am not sure if this version works without issue on such a recent Linux mint distribution; may be you should try an older version of Linux Mint like v17, or build Aranym from scratch.
Give a look at Linux log files to see Aranym error messages.
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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby farvardin » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:47 am

He said he used the aranym version from the linux mint repository.
On another computer, with Mint 18 and ARAnyM 1.0.2, I've installed Easyaramint and it supports the same 1024x768 resolution without problem (I haven't tested more but it should work), so it's probably a configuration problem.

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby Eero Tamminen » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:26 pm

If one is using fullscreen mode, I guess Aranym resolution needs to match modes supported by the monitor (see "xrandr" output).

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby Faucon2001 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:40 am

I believe Xwindow in Linux Mint accepts others resolutions than 640x480, especially if it's the native resolution . I don't think that's the issue.
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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby nagual » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:26 am

Sorry for long delay,I had a really bad pneumonia :-((

So, first, thank @farvardin for tip for installing Aranym - now I have Aranym JIT item on the panel.

Second, resolution of my laptop is 1600x900.
I just copy config files from Windows distribution (and I had full screen 1600x900 in Windows version of Aranym), drive images etc.. and start Aranym.
Can I leave NVRAM from Linux distribution or I can just replace with mine from Windows distribution ?

I have Xboot installing and using mostly clear TOS or MagiC, don't like MiNT very much.

When start Aranym on Linux Mint I have some resolution like 1024x768, no matter what resolution is specified in fvdi.sys.
If I play with Aranym config screen and press button FULLSCREEN, I have a selected resolution but with window title bar and, of course, I can't see whole screen, bottom part of screen is missing...

I install first time (on Windows distribution) Aranym from scratch, building complete profiles for my need, so I don't use EasyAramint or whatever, it just don't fit...

Question is - what I'm doing wrong ?
Why I cant reach full screen resolution specified in fvdi.sys ?
Is ti problem with aranym.sys ?

Regards !

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby Eero Tamminen » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:39 pm

farvardin wrote:I don't know much Aranym, but can't you try this fVDI thing in Hatari as well?


With Aranym, people use fVDI driver that's just a thin wrapper around Aranym's NatFeats VDI feature. It supports larger resolutions and bitdepths than what Atari natively supports. However, to use fVDI with Hatari, you need native Atari fVDI driver, but last time I looked I didn't find ready builds of them (for newer fVDI versions).

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby farvardin » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:54 pm

hello,

It works.
I've tested further with EasyAraMint, I also have a 1600x900 screen on my laptop (the one running the same linux mint version as you do, 18).
In the aranym setup ("pause") , I've set video in fullscreen, 25 fps, and monitor: VGA. Video output : custom 1600x900. Then saved the settings.

In the mint setup, "FVDI conf", at the end I've modified the resolution to fit my screen:
01r aranym.sys mode 1600x900x32@72

After a reboot I got the correct fullscreen resolution at 1600x900 (just the background image has disappeared), so it seems perfect for me!

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby Faucon2001 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:25 pm

FVDI and Aranym interact between each other in an intelligent but sometime obscure way.

The screen resolution for FVDI is normally defined into FVDI.SYS but if in Aranym Setup screen, in VIDEO options, you tick "Autozoom Enabled" and "Fixed size", the definition set on the right side of the panel will be forced and used instead of the one defined in FVDI.SYS
So if you want FVDI to be forced to 1600x900, in Aranym Setup screen, VIDEO option, define a Custom resolution of 1600x900.
You can also untick "Autozoom Enabled" and "Fixed size", and define it in FVDI.SYS
Sherry on the cake, in Aranym Setup screen, VIDEO option, tick "Autozoom Enabled" and "Fixed size", and set a "custom" resolution of 0 vertical and 0 horizontal : FVDI will be set automatically to the maximum resolution of your Linux Mint Desktop : it's magic !

I have tested it on Ubuntu 15.04 with a bare Aranym 1.02 + TOS 4.04 + FVDI 0.968b3L (from Vincent Rivière) and it works perfectly in 1920x1080x32
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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby Faucon2001 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:31 pm

PS : if you use only TOS or Magic, Aranym JIT is useless for you, just use the normal Aranym version.
Due to the blitter which cannot be switched off under TOS 4.04, Aranym-JIT is slower than plain Aranym.
Aranym-JIT is usefull if you boot under Emutos, and in this case is 10 times faster than plain Aranym
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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby nagual » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:39 am

Dear Faucon2001:-)

You make my day:-)))
Thank You so much1

It works exactly as I expected !

Also , I agree about Aranym JIT - try with normal Aranym - works much faster:-))

So, once again, thank You for tip, effort and time:-)))

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby nagual » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:41 am

Dear farvardin !

I also try Your tip and...voila !!!
Works !!!

You guys save me hours and hours of trying to get what I want !

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby mikro » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:11 am

Faucon2001 wrote:PS : if you use only TOS or Magic, Aranym JIT is useless for you, just use the normal Aranym version.
Due to the blitter which cannot be switched off under TOS 4.04, Aranym-JIT is slower than plain Aranym.
Aranym-JIT is usefull if you boot under Emutos, and in this case is 10 times faster than plain Aranym

Would installing NVDI help in such case? It disables the Blitter in VDI functions, same trick had to be applied for the CT60 which couldn't snoop on Blitter accesses as well.

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby Faucon2001 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:11 am

Nop, I have noticed the same slow down using NVDI with Araynm JIT under TOS 4.04.
I guess that even though the blitter is no longer used by NVDI the blitter emulation remains active and therefore slowdown the emulator.
TOS 4.04 with videl and Aranym JIT would be a killer in term of speed and compatibility.
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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby mikro » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:25 am

I think your problem isn't the Blitter but the Videl. TOS, with or without NVDI, writes tons of stuff into Videl registers. fVDI uses Aranym's native features interface. Perhaps you could give fVDI + TOS go, this should fix the performance.

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby Faucon2001 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:04 am

OL explained me a few years ago that blitter émulation interrupts the processor in Aranym, making JIT less efficient than classic method, and as the blitter can't be deactivated in TOS 4.04 that's why you can't use JIT with TOS 4.04. It's not a limitation due to the power of host processor. In other words, the issue remains the same with Videl or Fvdi, though you can expect a better performance with Fvdi than with Videl. I will post some benchmarks tonight to demonstrate it.
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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby jfl » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:15 am

Faucon2001 wrote:Sherry on the cake, in Aranym Setup screen, VIDEO option, tick "Autozoom Enabled" and "Fixed size", and set a "custom" resolution of 0 vertical and 0 horizontal : FVDI will be set automatically to the maximum resolution of your Linux Mint Desktop : it's magic !

Neat trick I didn't know about. Thanks for the tip!
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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby mikro » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:04 pm

Faucon2001 wrote:OL explained me a few years ago that blitter émulation interrupts the processor in Aranym, making JIT less efficient than classic method, and as the blitter can't be deactivated in TOS 4.04 that's why you can't use JIT with TOS 4.04. It's not a limitation due to the power of host processor. In other words, the issue remains the same with Videl or Fvdi, though you can expect a better performance with Fvdi than with Videl. I will post some benchmarks tonight to demonstrate it.

I think there's some simplification involved. I assure you NVDI does disable the Blitter in TOS. Maybe it's something else hardware and Blitter related but TOS is innocent here.

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby Faucon2001 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:37 am

mikro wrote:I think there's some simplification involved. I assure you NVDI does disable the Blitter in TOS. Maybe it's something else hardware and Blitter related but TOS is innocent here.

On one hand I am not nor an hardware expert nor a System developer but a power user, so may be my explanation is not clear or I have not perfectly understood the detailed that OL explained me, on the other hand I am a scientist, I cannot stay with a doubt and needs to clarify it, so I ran several series of benchmark to support my observations :
Image
In the first table, it's clear that JIT doesn't give a boost of performance with TOS 4.04, and some parameters have even a worst performance, and that's exactly the point of my comment. The biggest impact is on Disk speed (IDE emulation) and to a lesser extent on VDI speed (excepted in plain TOS without NVDI which suffers a huge drop), processing speed remaining the same. This is not in line with the increase expected with JIT (more than 10X faster). Obviously, as you mentioned, using FVDI instead of NVDI gives a 25% increase in processing power, due to the power hungry VIDEL emulation, but doesn't reach the 10x or more factor.

Looking at the second table, 2 first columns, which is Emutos + Mint + FVDI, we have a 18.5X times boost in performance with JIT, which is normal.
So I came to the conclusion that TOS 4.04 was slowing down the whole thing.

Now your doubts started to ring me a bell, and I decided to do the same benchmark with Emutos + NVDI, Emutos + FVDI, in standard and JIT mode, and to my surprise I got exactly the same results as TOS 4.04 : no boost with JIT ( I have not put the results as they are almost a copy paste of TOS 4.04 results). So would it be that JIT does work only with Mint?

I did the same bench test with TOS 4.04 + Mint (4 last columns of table 2) and Yes, we have the boost expected when JIT is activated.
So my first conclusion TOS 4.04 and the blitter hypothesis were wrong and it seems that JIT doesn't give the expected boost with single task TOS, but only with Mint ( Tos 4.04 + Magic doesn't show any boost neither).
Does it make any sens to you?
Is Mint optimized to take benefit of JIT ??
Why the Disk IDE emulation slows down so much in JIT mode?

So more questions in the end.
Philippe

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby Faucon2001 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:44 am

Faucon2001 wrote:
mikro wrote:I think there's some simplification involved. I assure you NVDI does disable the Blitter in TOS. Maybe it's something else hardware and Blitter related but TOS is innocent here.

On one hand I am not nor an hardware expert nor a System developer but a power user, so may be my explanation is not clear or I have not perfectly understood the detailed that OL explained me, on the other hand I am a scientist, I cannot stay with a doubt and needs to clarify it, so I ran several series of benchmark to support my observations :
Image
In the first table, it's clear that JIT doesn't give a boost of performance with TOS 4.04, and some parameters have even a worst performance, and that's exactly the point of my comment. The biggest impact is on Disk speed (IDE emulation) and to a lesser extent on VDI speed (excepted in plain TOS without NVDI which suffers a huge drop), processing speed remaining the same. This is not in line with the increase expected with JIT (more than 10X faster). Obviously, as you mentioned, using FVDI instead of NVDI gives a 25% increase in processing power, due to the power hungry VIDEL emulation used by NVDI and not used by FVDI, but doesn't reach the 10x or more factor.

Looking at the second table, 2 first columns, which is Emutos + Mint + FVDI, (Note : this config doesn't use IDE emulation but the faster methode not compatible with TOS 4.04, so results for disks can't be compared)

Now your doubts started to ring me a bell, and I decided to do the same benchmark with Emutos + NVDI, Emutos + FVDI, in standard and JIT mode, and to my surprise I got exactly the same results as for TOS 4.04 : no boost with JIT ( I have not put the results as they are almost a copy paste of TOS 4.04 results). So would it be that JIT does work only with Mint?

I did the same bench test with TOS 4.04 + Mint (4 last columns of table 2) and Yes, we have the boost expected when JIT is activated.
So my first conclusion TOS 4.04 and the blitter hypothesis were erroneous and it seems that JIT doesn't give the expected boost with single task TOS, but only with Mint ( Tos 4.04 + Magic doesn't show any boost neither).
Does it make any sens to you?
Is Mint optimized to take benefit of JIT ??
Why the Disk IDE emulation slows down so much in JIT mode?

So more questions in the end.
Philippe

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My music http://www.philippeworld.net/
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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby Eero Tamminen » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:40 pm

Faucon2001 wrote:Is Mint optimized to take benefit of JIT ??
Why the Disk IDE emulation slows down so much in JIT mode?


I assume that you have more NativeFeatures drivers in use with MiNT than with your plain (Emu)TOS setup, and MiNT probably handles idle better (uses halt instruction). In disk case, is it possible that you're using NatFeats VFAT driver in MiNT setup instead of IDE disk image?

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby mikro » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:42 pm

Philippe, you're a kind of developer's dream, having tester like you is priceless. ;)

I agree with Eero, I think it's because of the hostfs aranym kernel module but still, it seems super strange that VDI is affected so much by filesystem access? (to explain, IDE access in TOS is another HW access, which Aranym-JIT perhaps hates too).

What you could is to install mint on an IDE image (I guess you're pretty good at it) and try to benchmark that. Be careful not to use "native partitions" (the ones starting with [PARTITION...] in ~/.aranym/config) because there's no hardware access involved at all.

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Re: Aranym, fVDI and Linux MiNT 18.3

Postby Faucon2001 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:20 am

Thanks Mikro, you're welcome.

You are right, Emutos+Mint+FVDI bench were done with Native Partitions and not IDE image, that's why I put as a comment that the drive results could'nt be compared for this specific test ; I was a bit lazy to redo it on my test setup.
Anyway, I have updated the table with all tests done on IDE image in order to be fully comparable ; I have also redone the plain TOS in JIT to check that the VDI result was not an artefact, and I confirm the same value. Finally I have removed the 3D results for a better reading as this test results depend on the color resolution ( dithering for NVDI and no dithering for FVDI).
So this is the new table with all tests comparable :
Image
So on top of the none speed increase in JIT mode for single task TOS, there is something weird with disk access which are 35x times slower with TOS 4.04 in JIT, and 17 times slower with TOS 4.04+Mint in JIT, but 3x faster in JIT when you switch to Emutos. A pity that Native Partitions can't be used with TOS 4.04 which will give a more than decent disk speed in JIT with Mint.
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