CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

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CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby simbo » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:28 pm

Many people ask how to do this
so i added this sticky
it can be linked and etc to topics that exist
and ill plod through and find all the relevent stuff in this post
basicaly changing the floppy for a modern one isnt to hard
you just
cut wire 10 on the floppy header cable {there is a red wire this is wire 1}
in its middle
there is two ends the pcb end and the floppy end
you then just cut a gash in wire 12
and connect a link to the floppy header end of wire 10

and leave the pcb end cut

then plug in a modern pc floppy 1.44

it will still function with atari style disks
however
if you want to use 1.44mb disks format and size
you will need tos 2.06 ste for generic format {ie from tos}
and also you must double the clock signals to the western digital floppy controllers clock pin normaly 16mhz
therefore its better to use satandisk for st machines and images though some tools work with st and 1.44mb where tos doesnt as a generic format...

its a little harder for them though can be done
to do this you need to add an ic
ppera who originaly did this mod way back in 1995 has come up with a method to do the double
and stop the 1.44mb drive making so much noise due to the different seek rate
that a 720k and 1.44mb drive use
you can ask him for his board and details
or you can just double the clock and if the noise bothers you
you can use software to change the seek rate to 6ms or other


and thats it
ill add links to all relevent topics and details
if your not sure what to do wait a few days till its all in one place
and have a read and print out any details

members should note when posting links take the actual facts and make a quote from them for posting
instead of links to a full topic

this is cool as it allows easy copy and print
if you use a pc
and choose shift print screen your printer will print the screen
if you choose alt and print screen key it prints the internal windows page
so its handy for quick takes of quotes,...

basicaly wait till all the details are right
im a bit skooped so im off to sleep

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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby shampoo59890 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:40 am

Hey Simbo ! Thanxxx for the sticky.

Rodolphe Czuba, maker of Falcon CT6x expansion board gave me all the data to make this extension on STFM/STE. It needs a PCB, a programmed GAL, one IC and 3 discrete components. I have all the files needed (PCB layout, GAL Jedec). No drivers or whatever needed. I have found some providers who can make the PCB for a few bucks. The other components are very easy to find. I'm still seeking for people with a GAL burner to complete the package.

I found a few people in France who would be interested by getting a full PCB+components pack. So, I can make a poll here too. As soon as I have found a nice 'GAL burner dude', I could order the PCBs, the GAL and make them burned, then resend the packages to all who have ordered. Please note that this is not plug&play as soon as you still have to wire a few signals from the motherboard to the adapter.

For those who can't wait or the curious dudes, I've uploaded the files here :

http://metalseb.free.fr/files/144-floppy-ste.zip
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simbo

Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby simbo » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:57 am

good idea

i looked over the design and it looks just the thing

keep them going ill link all the other floppy topics together later today
{one i wake up and come online again}

this will make a good faq once its filled and edited

and kits made,, im sure others will want to add

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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby 1024MAK » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:52 am

shampoo59890

If you do put together a kit of parts including a PCB, a programmed GAL etc then I would indeed be interested :D
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby shampoo59890 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:11 pm

Hey folks,

I was away for a few days. I'm currently checking a zillion mails and messages before I can get there again seriously. Check out for news !
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby simbo » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:57 am

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8309

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7667
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7687

the ste and stfm floppy sockets are layed out differently
to get external 1.44mb also you need to add a wire under the board
youll find details at the above links
about most stuff to do with adding 1.44mb drives
other than dealing with the ajax clock

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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby shampoo59890 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:34 am

Hey there,

I finally succeeded in finding a proper provider that is doing the PCB that I shall receive later this week. Components are on the way and I shall receive them today, the later tomorrow. Then soldering, wiring and test ! As Simba said, ST and STE mobos are layouted differently. BUT remember that this hack is not there to provide a SECOND drive to the STx but instead replace the A: one !

By the way, I don't use the Czuba solution anymore but another one that I find simpler and that avoid a GAL to be burned. And I find it easier to implement into the machine too.

I think I will end up tests by the end of the week, the later next one.

Then, I will be able to open pre-orders for anyone interested. There will be a ST and a STE version. The only difference is that the STE one needs a 16Mhz crystal oscillator added.

Staty tuned for news !
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby BoNuS » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:45 pm

Sounds really intressting :) Will follow this topic for sure, 720K is a disaster to get, 1,44 I can live with ;)
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby wongck » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:19 am

Wow another hw addon for the ST! Cool! :D
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby simbo » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:28 am

GREAT

a kit in line for many

....

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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby KLund1 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:50 am

This sounds great!!! Sign me up for 1 :D
Now that we will have a much easier way to upgrade our ST's for 'normal' 1.44mb drives!!! it begs small question: which drives will fit the odd shape of ST(e)'s case slots and drive bazzles? I'm sure not everyone wants to cut the case to match drive. I seen a lot of FD's and front bazzle all seem to attach in a different manner. There should be a few that that we could swap the button, and bazzle from the original drive. Anyone got a few model numbers? Also, what about the right size risers to get the drive to right level of the case slot off the motherboard?
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby shampoo59890 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:32 am

Well, I'm afraid that no replacement disk drive will fit perfectly. You'll have to cut out a bit of plastic case. The only thing you can do is to find a TT drive but I'm not sure 100% that the case hole is right the same.
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby shampoo59890 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:41 pm

Some news

Well, tried for 2 days to make this damn HD switch to work, without success. At best, it was working but only in HD. I was able to format 1.44 a floppy and to write/read from it (save desktop function was working okay) but DD disks were not recognized at all. Pain ! Finally found why, the HD floppy I was using (EPSON SMD340, coming from a Falcon) does not deliver the HD/DD signal on its pin 2 but even with manual feeding of the signal into the small PCB, there was no change.

Fed up with this. I am returning to initial DD floppy for the moment. Found some docs on the web, very useful for this kind of mod and will try another solution in the following days. Stay tuned for reports :megaphone:

The good side : No over-heating of floppy controller when clocked at 16 Mhz.
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simbo

Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby simbo » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:23 pm

use a modern 1.44mb floppy from a pc

change wire 10 and 12 as descibed to route the motor on signals correctly
and your in business ....

however for both modes to work you need to get the clock switching right
see pperas site or look above for the gal design
ppera recently solved in logic or gal the 6ms problem with 1.44mb drives that makes them noisy

so maybe he has finished a design
although i see his designs are more commercial these days and a charge is made
however the designs are there etc free to reuse

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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby matt » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:41 pm

is this ppera's site? http://ppera.07x.net/

if so, i cannot see gal or mention of HD floppy?
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby shampoo59890 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:54 pm

simbo wrote:change wire 10 and 12 as descibed to route the motor on signals correctly
and your in business ....


I will try to connect pin 10 and 12 together but I have drive spinout right now.

however for both modes to work you need to get the clock switching right
see pperas site or look above for the gal design


I don't need a GAL. I just have to switch between 8 and 16 Mhz according to the HD/DD signal given by floppy probe and available on pin 2 of ribbon cable.
If drives does not deliver signal like SMD340, I will be obliged to do manual switching.
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby wongck » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:30 am

simbo wrote:change wire 10 and 12 as descibed to route the motor on signals correctly

One of them is select Disk 0 while the other is Disk 1.
As ST don't select either Disk, shorting it will do make sure the device is selected.
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby AtariSince1989 » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:07 pm

matt wrote:is this ppera's site? http://ppera.07x.net/

if so, i cannot see gal or mention of HD floppy?

Yes, that is his web.

The GAL listing is at http://ppera.07x.net/atari/astide.php

Hope it helps.
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby matt » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:09 pm

Thanks
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby eeun » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:35 pm

Would it not be safer modifying the floppy drive, rather than cutting your ST's cable?
The drive is much easier to replace than the cable if you botch the cutting.

Alison documents modifying one drive on her site:
http://www.logicsays.com/atari/

But I've found several other drive manufacturers were kind enough to label D0 and D1 on their circuit boards.

I've modified a couple drives from old Compaqs - only to run DD, not HD - but they worked well.

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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby 8bitbubsy » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:45 am

The "Drive select" jumper is sometimes labeled "S0 S1" or "SEL0 SEL1" too... Where a little 0 ohm resistor is the "jumper"... Just use a tweezer and gently desolder it, then move it to SEL0.. Works like a charm here! I really recommend the Sony MPF920 floppy drives, works very good with the Atari ST :D

Also route a wire from CTIN (not the GND side) to PIN 1 of the floppy drive connector. There you go!

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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby matt » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:57 am

Good tip to use tweezers to desolder and move.

I desoldered, lost the resistor on my worktop, and so used solder on SEL0. Then the wire and I was done.

Oops! But it worked.
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Re: CHANGE A ST FLOPPY OUT FOR A 1.44MB MODERN DRIVE STICKY

Postby wongck » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:25 pm

8bitbubsy wrote:The "Drive select" jumper is sometimes labeled "S0 S1" or "SEL0 SEL1" too... Where a little 0 ohm resistor is the "jumper"... Just use a tweezer and gently desolder it, then move it to SEL0.. Works like a charm here! I really recommend the Sony MPF920 floppy drives, works very good with the Atari ST :D


Shorting pin 10 & 12 togther works as well.
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simbo

had an idea for a floppy addin

Postby simbo » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:35 am

a small pcb and has two/three 34pin connectors
one female and one{?two} male

allows for dual floppy this way without mainboard socket mod or to many cables
but at the same time filters the motor etc signals to the right place for modern pc 1.44mb floppy drives
to change any floppy port old to new standard

to mod an external cable is a matter of changing two wires on the connector floppy end...

is a very small cheep board ANY PC FLOPPY WITHOUT CHANGE will plug into it and work
quite easy its just reroute a few signals {two} :contract:

simbo

Re: had an idea for a floppy addin

Postby simbo » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:27 am

what do people think

any probs seen???

i can make a small pcb with sockets on for about a couple of £

you can simply split out wire 12 that goes to the header and connect it too W2 or W1 pin 3
this is the drive select jumper on the mainboard
its used to select if drive 1 is internal or not
but leave the jumper as is
as youll see on the diagram below

for ste mega ste there is no change to the wires
this will also work with any atari machine like tt and falcon
with a simple added link to pin 12 on the internal cable from D1 signal gate {normaly goes to external drive only}

if you ever come across an amstrad machine its a brick laptop 286 thing with an lcd
hack it for its floppys they are ultra slim and the highest quality
two fit in the space of one normal floppy with little mod to cases
perfect..!!!

someone asked a while back how to mod pc drives

why bother modding them just do this

you need to use two flat cables made from two old pc floppy with the twisted bit scissored off...
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