Correct method to store your atari do's and donts topic

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simbo

Correct method to store your atari do's and donts topic

Postby simbo » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:25 am

The first thing to say is dont store any piece of electronic or electrical retro gear
in a celler or garage

basicaly retro gear uses tin and lead solder joints

in tempretures below ~13 deg c the tin in the solder will change state faster
there is two types of tin as metal state
one is called white the other is gray state

if you store stuff below 13deg the white tin in the joints changes much faster to gray tin
in extreame tempretures like below -10 deg the joints in the machines will turn to a mix of lead crystals
and gray tin dust
becouse gray tin has no cohearance

even if you store above 0 and below 13deg this change occurs and makes the solder joints
crack and become mechanicaly unstable leading to also a large resistance to the flow of current
through the joints and this is a spiraling problem eventualy leading to 'state' failure's

and is the reason most ics need attention when you use an atari after storage... anyway
becouse there pins are exposed and badly protected 'the lightbulbs'

my tips are always to store ataris in the bottom drawer and other stuff in cupboards indoors
and at room tempreture above 13deg point wrapped in a towel
storage wraps are quite cool using a vacume cleaner you suck out the air from the wrap


frank b also notices if you wrap retroputer in some types of poly bags they seem to go yellow very fast
im sure some of these ergo plastics {self rotting } seem to me to be a coulprite???
he also notices black bin bags are better than white tip lid bin ones.....

anyway there is a tips on tin
i hope you read more about gray and white tin lead solder joints problems
ones its happened there is no way to change gray to white tin again easily
but im sure someone will give it a go

post your helpfull retro storage commen :mrgreen: ts or tips details below

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Re: Correct method to store your atari do's and donts topic

Postby BoNuS » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:32 am

Wrapping them in plastic is indeed wrong strangly enough. There is a kind of weakening agent in it to make
it flexiable and soft. This agent leaves the plastic after a while and gets into anyother thing that is willing
to bound chemical with it. Esp. if the enviroment is a little damped.

Also keep them out of the sunlight, this also doesn't do anything good for old plastic's.
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Re: Correct method to store your atari do's and donts topic

Postby alexh » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:02 pm

If you store your equipment in Plastic containers (you know the 80l boxes with lids) be careful not to trap any moisture inside, especially if they are almost air-tight. Getting mould off plastic is almost impossible.

I would recommend you buy some Silica gel granules in paper pouches and pop them in the box with your electronics. Silica gel is a desiccant and will absorb any moisture which gets in.

And while it is better if your stuff doesn't yellow, if it does you can restore it to the original colour using a solution of high concentration Hydrogen Peroxide and TAED (Oxy) together with UV (either sunlight or even better a UV lamp). This technique was discovered last year and I've used it several times with great results. Search the forums for the precise details.

If you are storing Atari games in cardboard boxes, do not stack them flat. They soon crush under their own weight, especially if they get even the slightest damp. Stack them side on as the boxes have much more rigidity. (As you can tell I didn't and now have a load of crushed boxes).

simbo wrote:because grey tin has no coherence

?? I don't think you meant coherence, did you?

simbo

Re: Correct method to store your atari do's and donts topic

Postby simbo » Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:29 am

no i ment i forget the verb

molecular cohesion

basicaly it is a three state metal
liquid :silver
solid :white
dust :gray

so it basicaly turns to dust slowly when you store it under 13deg

this is was and will always be a problem in places like russia and poland etc
where the church has to be kept warm otherwise when you play the organ
all the pipes explode as powder
and im sure they will replace each pipe every so often


i also like the way alex you state that the method to whiten plastic was discovered last year

this is total rubbish
i first published this method in 2003 in this very forum

its well documented online im sure if you hunt the forum for my early posts
i mentioned it several times and it was well discussed by myself and others for 6 years before
someone staked there claim to the method and further perfected it

so if anything i discovered it in 2003
and i found it from a texas instuments book from the library in i think around 1990
the method used to whiten there calculators/till's in banks and other offices

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Re: Correct method to store your atari do's and donts topic

Postby alexh » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:56 am

simbo wrote:i also like the way alex you state that the method to whiten plastic was discovered last year.

Ok, it was re-discovered :P

The results are so amazingly good, I have personally tried it with 12% H2O2 + TAED (Oxy Action) + 75W UV lamp for about 12 hrs and it has restored everything to it's original colour.

Oh, and I can confirm that wrapping an Atari in bubble wrap plastic does appear to increase yellowing.

simbo

Re: Correct method to store your atari do's and donts topic

Postby simbo » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:33 pm

reading into lead it also exhibits a similar state change
however it hardens to crystals then becomes powder at -56deg for prolonged periods
both metals will hyperoxidise when in gray state
so will both go white as soon as the temp rises again
so far there is no solution
perhaps the same chemists that nicked my idea and published it in a fancy site and gave no credits ATALL
can turn there hand to this ongoing problem and less of the go white
and more make it work pholosophie can be followed...

you can have a shinny white case for 5 years max till re treatment
meanwhile the solders fall appart and the internal guts blow up
sounds a bit like a dried out alchoholic to me


i like my yellow case till i dont

when its brown ill dye it .....

i would prefer matt black less reflections less noise better solders is the way for sure

if you have the time when your bleaching the case
best resolder every joint in the machine using silver smd solder bar and flux spray

for sure!!!! esp if you live north of 55"

if i dye my case ill use sodium peroxide and bubble oxygen through it
you can buy a small tank from a local gas supplier for a 10er+ bottle charge
then there is no need for sun ray lamps
you leave it alone and it will go white then stay white for upto 20 years

if you use oxy and lamps it will go brown in 5years or under

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Re: Correct method to store your atari do's and donts topic

Postby alexh » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:10 pm

simbo wrote:when its brown ill dye it ..... i would prefer matt black less reflections

I know you said "dye" but I found that too difficult an idea. In the past, painted some of my yellowing computers to matt black.

It took several attempts to find the best paint (i.e. one that does not look painted). I tried Auto-paint but even with the best spray, very light coats, it still looks painted.

I read about enamel spray paint on several forums being the one to go with.

simbo

Re: Correct method to store your atari do's and donts topic

Postby simbo » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:39 pm

your better off with latex (rubber) paint it provides a self leveling uniformal coating
that's air tight

i prefer matt black ataris they 'look the part' siniter for sure!!!

simbo

Re: Correct method to store your atari do's and donts topic

Postby simbo » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:59 am

its winter
time to wrap up the ataris and other lead tin retos
and let them rest

virtual stuff now rules....! so where is steem v3.5

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Re: Correct method to store your atari do's and donts topic

Postby DarkLord » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:23 am

simbo wrote:your better off with latex (rubber) paint it provides a self leveling uniformal coating
that's air tight

i prefer matt black ataris they 'look the part' siniter for sure!!!


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