THE 'FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO' TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

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simbo

Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby simbo » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:31 pm

please surrender a copy of tos 2.06 and if possible tos 1.04

it will be compiled with a generic 68000 compiler but im sure it will say what one was used


please

i wont further this project till i have it

as there is no point !!! if i have to spend a 6 months at byte patch level
as for replacing icons this is quite easy using pc tools i have
its floppy routines and controller sub system access i/we as it seem it's for now !!!! need to adjust

alone as usual
never mind ill plod on

:megaphone: source please!!! :contract: :mrgreen: :coffe:

if you want this card
provide to goods :angel:

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Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby karlm » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:00 am

here you go simbo

http://dev-docs.atariforge.org/files/tos404.zip

Lonny has it on his website. It's not complete, but at least most of it is there and is well commented C code, with some asm in there as well.

hope that's of help.

karlm.

simbo

Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby simbo » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:00 am

ok i found the floppy routines within deskdisk.c and deskfile.c
so ill have a good look at exactly whats going on it its branching
already i see what i expected and ill start to build this project in ernest now
ill assume somewhere someone will have tos 2.06 but i have tos1.00 but no 1.04
so i still need these versions and maybe 3.0x if avalible
someone somewhere will have it for sure
if you see this you can also pm me via this board a copy
or send to email
if you dont want it public fine
i wont in anyway pass it on...

simbo

Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby simbo » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:04 pm

this is a list of signals to the floppy controller and ide {030}
and its seems now really easy to do this mod board
mostly just a few changes need made to the relevent classes in the aes and it recompiled and patched in
{inbuilt fat 12 hdd driver could be very nice}
or build the whole driver into tos instead reuse the space made avalible from removing the floppy routines
then there would be no need for other drivers ....for ide or scsi

AT AJAX CONTROLLER
-------------------------------
INPUTS TO ATARI/DMA FROM AJAX
-------------------------------
FCS = FLOPPY CLEAR TO SEND : INPUT TO AJAX : ACTIVE LOW
FDRQ = FLOPPY DATA REQUEST : INPUT TO AJAX : ACTIVE HIGH
FCCLK = FLOPPY CONTROLLER CLOCK {8-16MHZ} : INPUT TO AJAX
CLEARED RW = READ WRITE : INPUT TO AJAX : WRITE = HIGH READ = LOW
XRESET = BUS CONTROLLER RESET PULSE : INPUT TO AJAX : ACTIVE LOW
CADDR 0..2 = ADDRESS 0 AND 1 {GIVES 00-11 AJAX CONTROLLER MODE ACTIONS} : INPUT TO AJAX
--------------------------------
OUTPUTS TO ATARI/DMA FROM AJAX
--------------------------------
FDINT = FLOPPY DRIVE INTERUPT REQUEST : OUTPUT FROM AJAX : ACTIVE HIGH
--------------
BUS DATA PATH
--------------
CDATA 0..7 = 8 BIT DATA WORD : BIDIRECTIONAL
==============================================================================

AT THE FLOPPY CABLE HEAD

---------------------------------
INPUTS TO FLOPPY LSI FROM ATARI
---------------------------------
MODE 1 = CHANGE DISK MODE : INPUT TO FLOPPY LSI : ACTIVE HIGH
MODE 2 = CHANGE DISK MODE : INPUT TO FLOPPY LSI : ACTIVE HIGH
----------------------------------
OUTPUTS FROM FLOPPY LSI TO ATARI
----------------------------------
DISKCHNG = DISK CHANGED DETECT : OUTPUT FROM FLOPPY LSI : ACTIVE LOW
MDET1 = MEDIA DETECT : OUTPUT FROM FLOPPY a LSI : ACTIVE LOW
MDET2 = MEDIA DETECT : OUTPUT FROM FLOPPY b LSI : ACTIVE LOW

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Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby klx300r » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:54 pm

get rid of floppies??? I still listen to my 8 track albums :lol:
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simbo

Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby simbo » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:47 am

quote :

but hang on, isn't rebuilding an atari 'super' card just a little of overkill to replace a floppy mechanism!? I mean we were talking that 100euros was a bit steep to do even that and now we're building a new sparrow-like prototype?!


i was only joking about adding a board to the ste think i was drinking when i posted it
anyway all very phesible however im not sure usefull

i just want tos 2.06 bios or basicaly the full atari tos source's
i asked the 'best' guy but got stone walled
he doesnt deal with me now becouse i complained that he fills out his custom declirations wrongly

i asked a pal to get what i need and send it over as a gift {£36 limit then there is a 15 quid charge}
i also complained to my local msp about this somewhat illegal charge stealth tax
£8 p/o handling charge and 8% vat
most of europe is free to send to from the u/s and this disparity is illegal under european/usa open trade laws
and i pointed this out to the msp woman {piss useless bureaucrat}

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Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby Shredder11 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:32 pm

simbo wrote:hi shredder
PLCC 68000 8MHz FN16's ....they ARE hard to find but you can find them in batches of 50 or 100 local to me.

I was thinking if i had a pal who would help. I can make a board for the STE that allows 68000 16mhz and an FPU 68881/2 {1 is ok here, 2 is not} also a 16MHz chip would be fine and 16mhz 68881 are easier to find cheeper in bulk. Making this board would be quite an undertaking and one I could fund if I had enough orders first; obviously only avalible when a dev unit is proven and this task is hard. We need another to take on one or other project; many many issues making a speed up unit for ste... not all easily solved


Have you had any more thoughts on this since Simbo? I wonder if placing a post on a few Atari sites might drum up some interest, i.e. maybe for people who would love the equivalent of a 16MHz MEGA STE but cannot find one. I'm not sure of the approximate cost of a 16MHz upgrade for the standard STE but it surely would be cheaper than finding and buying a MEGA STE from Ebay?

Hey I very nearly succumbed to impulse buying yesterday by buying that 16MHz 68000 CPU from Australia (dunno if you saw this auction). I have no experience of soldering chips so it would have sat there in my room, waiting for the other parts and someone to do the job! :mrgreen:

simbo

Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby simbo » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:27 pm

if you have a 16mhz 68000 in your hand
if its plcc its perfect for the ste
you must dig the pin out like this
also connect a single pin to the input pin left over
the input must be 'doubled' to allow the mpu to run at ~16mhz
to do this you need to use a TTL chips
and double the 8 mhz clock back to 16
i prefer to take the 16mhz from the output of the shifter ic
this keeps sync with the dot clock and colour clock
ill provide detail if needed

well done to get even a 16mhz 68000 {very hard to find for sure !!!} no matter what package ..! :contract:

it makes the st ste lots smoother to use menus load faster as does transactions

its well worth adding :)
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simbo

Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby simbo » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:33 pm

PS
above is pin 15 split from the 8mhz feed point

most ste 8mhz mpu will clock too 16mhz with little problems

it pays to ask sometime's!!!

i think pin 52 GST SHIFTER provides a 16mhz dot clock

connect a wire between the split as above pin 15 and pin 52 of the gst shiter
add a small heatsink to the center of the 68000 plcc
remove its clip if needed

ive done this and it works for me !!! many times!!!


method

lift the 68000 out
locate pin 15
lift out the pin as pitcures
lift the socket pin out if you like
and connect a wire from the mpu to the gst shifter...


if it works you win a watch


however some programs WILL give problems
so a switch is handy here

you can use a chip to switch or a close jumper

i use coax and a two pole switch.,...

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Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby Shredder11 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:15 am

simbo wrote:well done to get even a 16mhz 68000 {very hard to find for sure !!!} no matter what package ..! :contract:


I did not bid on it as I still needed the other components for an upgrade board. Anyway perhaps another will come along or maybe a campaign on the Atari ST sites can get people wanting a 16MHz + FPU upgrade. I can think of plenty of software that would benefit from this; infact some software will only work properly with a speed upgrade.

How much money are we talking for 50pcs anyway? How much would all the required components cost for a finished board?

simbo

Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby simbo » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:42 pm

as ive said why even bother with a 16mhz mpu you dont really need it

most ste will work quite happy with the -fn8 running at 16mhz
ive done this in the past
you need connect only one wire from the shifter to the mpu clock pin
problem solved {maybe}
if its unstable well its no problem to short over the pins
to switch in is just a double pole single throw switch,...

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Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby joska » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 pm

simbo wrote:lift the 68000 out
locate pin 15
lift out the pin as pitcures
lift the socket pin out if you like
and connect a wire from the mpu to the gst shifter...


So what you're saying is that you can run the CPU at 16MHz without any extra hardware/logic? Sounds interesting, have you done any performance-tests on such a modified STE?
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Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby Shredder11 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:53 pm

I presume you would also need a fan on the CPU, which is fine because my Eiffel PS2 interface has the facility to control fan speed etc. I like the idea of this as it appears to be a more simple and cheaper approach, plus I assume my existing IDE interface (IDEal ?) can remain plugged in my STEs CPU socket over the CPU. This is something that has put me off other CPU upgrades before, because I would if possible like to keep my IDE interface plugged in.

So is this something you have done before on an STE Simbo? Thanks for the info by the way...you are a mine of ideas! :cheers:


So is this the little fellow we need?

Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Motorola_MC68000FN8.jpg

simbo

Re: THE 'FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO' TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby simbo » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:50 pm

if you 'double' the mpu clock only
all it does is take less ins cycles compaired to what it would at 8mhz when run at 16
it will process a command then wait about
some apps need mpu time some dont

if you find excessive glitch and it breaks too often
then you can flick a switch back to 8mhz

the BEST way it too replace all the clocks

32mhz and 8mhz crystals in ste
using a dual DDS a digital synth
then you can trim the frequency outputs to 1hz each

a simple board

leaving the 16mhz sclk intacked ...

the crystals drift and this affects things more each day

some games wont even run

forinstance

got a sticky cart for an old vid game

replace its resonator with another or a ttl
and magicaly it will again work

this is becouse crystals are made from rock
and it contains impurities that will redistribute themselfs throught it
due to atomic migration
where in a stream of electrons like a river of water
the rocks in the shape or protons and nutrons even whole atoms
get moved along in the flow of voltage {electron motivative force within atomis debrie}

making the frequencys unstable and drify

replace the crystals ...!! more than a floppy

even its lsi has its own crystal or resonator

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Re: THE 'FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO' TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby Shredder11 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:22 pm

Well I know this topic has strayed from Floppy stuff and the next thing I will say should be in the Wanted/For Sale section, but this may interest you. There are some chip parts on Ebay for a MEGA STE and Hard Disk controller board, plus the full case.

Ebay auction numbers: 140381144746 and 140381145830 and 140381148807

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Re: THE 'FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO' TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby wongck » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:22 pm

Shredder11 wrote:Well I know this topic has strayed from Floppy stuff and the next thing I will say should be in the Wanted/For Sale section, but this may interest you. There are some chip parts on Ebay for a MEGA STE and Hard Disk controller board, plus the full case.

Your're right, it should be in the wanted/For sale section 8)
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Re: THE 'FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO' TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby simbo » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:30 am

gee


:megaphone: i was expecting to see see a smartfloppy solution :contract:

never mind :x

so many images now why need a mechanical drive unit :|

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Re: THE 'FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO' TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby neutrino » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:16 am

simbo wrote:so many images now why need a mechanical drive unit :|


Floppy sound is part of my ST memories. Remember when looking at a new demo or game with the screen which fades to back and the "tac-tac-tac" sound which rythms in the same than your hear because you just willing to see waht's new...
Aaaaaah so good ...

In the same time I like the fast loading option of emulators...

Ok, let's see what it means. Do you want to get rid off the FDC or do you allow a FDC emulation for old games and demos ?

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Re: THE 'FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO' TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby wongck » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:29 pm

neutrino wrote:Floppy sound is part of my ST memories. Remember when looking at a new demo or game with the screen which fades to back and the "tac-tac-tac" sound which rythms in the same than your hear because you just willing to see waht's new...
Aaaaaah so good ...

I guess if someone is working on a replacement drive, he may add a couple of cents worth of hardware + speaker to emulate the sounds. 8)
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Re: THE 'FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO' TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF IT ?

Postby Desty » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:56 am

wongck wrote:
neutrino wrote:Floppy sound is part of my ST memories. Remember when looking at a new demo or game with the screen which fades to back and the "tac-tac-tac" sound which rythms in the same than your hear because you just willing to see waht's new...
Aaaaaah so good ...

I guess if someone is working on a replacement drive, he may add a couple of cents worth of hardware + speaker to emulate the sounds. 8)

There's quite a variety of different sounds made by the floppy though - e.g. my copy of Saint Dragon (and, iirc, SWIV) made interesting noises when loading.

Also you could hear when GEM was going to throw up a "Data on drive A: may be damaged" error; the drive made a "neh........ nehneh" noise :P
tá'n poc ar buile!

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Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF

Postby Shredder11 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:17 pm

simbo wrote:if you have a 16mhz 68000 in your hand
if its plcc its perfect for the ste
you must dig the pin out like this
also connect a single pin to the input pin left over
the input must be 'doubled' to allow the mpu to run at ~16mhz
to do this you need to use a TTL chips
and double the 8 mhz clock back to 16
i prefer to take the 16mhz from the output of the shifter ic
this keeps sync with the dot clock and colour clock
ill provide detail if needed



Okay so I now have a 16MHz 68-pin PLCC CPU but nothing else. If you have some easy to follow detailed instructions that would be great. I'm wanting to keep my existing IDE interface piggy backed on top of the CPU if at all possible, although removing this will take a big of muscle power! :lol: So will using this instead of the 8MHz CPU mean I do not need a heat sink? A heat sink will mean I cannot have my IDE interface plugged in.

P.S. Feel free to move this whole CPU thing into a seperate topic if you want, to save further disruption to this floppy related topic. :)

simbo

Re: THE FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF

Postby simbo » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:22 am

Shredder11 wrote:
simbo wrote:if you have a 16mhz 68000 in your hand
if its plcc its perfect for the ste
you must dig the pin out like this
also connect a single pin to the input pin left over
the input must be 'doubled' to allow the mpu to run at ~16mhz
to do this you need to use a TTL chips
and double the 8 mhz clock back to 16
i prefer to take the 16mhz from the output of the shifter ic
this keeps sync with the dot clock and colour clock
ill provide detail if needed



Okay so I now have a 16MHz 68-pin PLCC CPU but nothing else. If you have some easy to follow detailed instructions that would be great. I'm wanting to keep my existing IDE interface piggy backed on top of the CPU if at all possible, although removing this will take a big of muscle power! :lol: So will using this instead of the 8MHz CPU mean I do not need a heat sink? A heat sink will mean I cannot have my IDE interface plugged in.

P.S. Feel free to move this whole CPU into a seperate topic if you want, to save further disruption to this floppy related topic. :)



you need too clock double to 8mhz clock to the plcc mpu 16mhz you have

doubling is not east unless you change the 32mhx to 32mhz
and 8mhx to 8mhz

i use ttl 32 and 8 mhz ttl blocks for the shifter and floppy
as per mega st ste// clocks -the pal dots...

simbo

Re: THE 'FLOPPY DRIVES MUST GO' TOPIC !!! HOW TO GET RID OF

Postby simbo » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:27 am

if you use a dds controlled clocks there is no probs!


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