Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

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Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby Anemos » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:06 pm

Atari ST to Commodore 1084s D2 monitor.
The schematic,and some pics..
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Last edited by Anemos on Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Atari 1040 STE - 4mb - TOS 1.62
Atari 1040 STF - 1mb - TOS 1.00

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby Mug UK » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:59 pm

Nice work - one for the Wiki if you know how to add stuff to it? If not, I'm sure I'll get around to it or Insanity as he seems to be doing the "innards of your ST" section.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby techie_alison » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:22 pm

Excellent!! :D
If I don't answer or appear to have forgotton then email again, I'm scatty! :)

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http://www.logicsays.com/index1 = Older Site (with more Atari)

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby PaulB » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:32 pm

Great stuff Anemos. Would this work on other Commodore monitors or just for this model?

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby Anemos » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:13 pm

thanks for your comments.
Im not sure if this working with other type commodore monitor,coz i have only this type monitor to test,but think this diagram can be work only with this plug : http://pinouts.ru/Video/C1084dd_pinout.shtml of D2 type monitor
The difference is : the circle connector of (D) and (D1) monitor ( http://pinouts.ru/Video/C1084d_pinout.shtml ) has not Composite Sync pin, that is a problem.
Atari 1040 STE - 4mb - TOS 1.62
Atari 1040 STF - 1mb - TOS 1.00

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby ppera » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:19 pm

Anemos wrote:The difference is : the circle connector of (D) and (D1) monitor ( http://pinouts.ru/Video/C1084d_pinout.shtml ) has not Composite Sync pin, that is a problem.


I don't think that it's the problem for Atari, as it has separated H and V sync outputs - so, one line more in cable and will work even slightly better.

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby Anemos » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:55 pm

i test to connect also the H and V sync pins ,without result,crappy screen ..
with this schematic works very well and screen is absolute,clear and constant.
i upload one new video on youtube to see..
Atari 1040 STE - 4mb - TOS 1.62
Atari 1040 STF - 1mb - TOS 1.00

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby ppera » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:00 pm

Of course, it was for monitors with separated H and V sync inputs.
What will use depends from that - monitor inputs...

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby Anemos » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:15 pm

you have right,for Atari monitors..

here is one last video with the screen, the flickers lines is just from my camera..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MGQh_pmxaM
Atari 1040 STE - 4mb - TOS 1.62
Atari 1040 STF - 1mb - TOS 1.00

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby Anemos » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:29 pm

Also i know is difficult to found extra 13pin plug for Atari ,and some times we need more for testing..
here is a simple homemade 13pin video out plug for Atari ST

Image
Image
Image
Image

rdy to use
Image
Atari 1040 STE - 4mb - TOS 1.62
Atari 1040 STF - 1mb - TOS 1.00

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby PaulB » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:34 pm

It may not look pretty but it's functional, that's what counts.

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby Desty » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:38 pm

Yep, very impressive. No faffing about trying to order plugs there :)
tá'n poc ar buile!

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby Anemos » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:41 pm

PaulB wrote:It may not look pretty but it's functional, that's what counts.


ye is not pretty.. :lol:
but that make fast in 10 min (5min to dry the epoxy glue..boring )
they is simply practical.
Atari 1040 STE - 4mb - TOS 1.62
Atari 1040 STF - 1mb - TOS 1.00

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby iconoclaST » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:32 pm

I've done this before with a Commodore 1080 (same pinout, but only one speaker), though without resistors on the R/G/B lines. It looks pretty good in the videos, but how well does it do outside of GEM? Mine worked fine in GEM, but running a demo/game/neochrome/maxymiser, etc, the image bent all over the place.

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby nativ » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:42 am

So the standard ST > Phillips monitor cable won't work?

I have a Commodore monitor but the picture rolls terribly!

any info?

Thanks

Ashley
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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby ppera » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:03 pm

nativ wrote:So the standard ST > Phillips monitor cable won't work?
I have a Commodore monitor but the picture rolls terribly!


Likely V-sync. line needs to be connected different.

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby Andru » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:19 pm

ppera wrote:
nativ wrote:So the standard ST > Phillips monitor cable won't work?
I have a Commodore monitor but the picture rolls terribly!


Likely V-sync. line needs to be connected different.


Indeed, VSYNC needs to be connected. I just made an Atari ST -> C1084 cable yesterday, and just out of curiosity I tried it with only HSYNC first and the picture was rolling vertically. Soldered the VSYNC wire and picture was perfect.

Here's a link to a page that describes both the 6-pin (round) DIN connector and the 9-pin (DSUB?) connector pinouts for the Commodore 1084.
http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/apple2/faq/16-016-What-are-the-pinouts-for-Commodore-s-1084-monitors.html

I also used 120 ohm resistors for the R, G and B lines (as suggested all over the place). Without the resistors the colour signals are likely to get saturated ("burned") because the RGB signals are quite strong.

For reference, here's the cable I made (Atari ST 13-pin => C1084S-P monitor 6-pin round DIN analog RGB video connector).
This cable has the audio signal as well (because the 1084 has separate left and right audio input RCA-type connectors).

Code: Select all

Atari ST (13-pin)                           C1084 (with ROUND 6-pin DIN connector)
----------------------------------------------------------------
pin  1 ---(Audio mono)--------------------- Audio Left+Right
pin  6 ---(Green)-----[120 ohm resistor]--- pin 1
pin  7 ---(Red)-------[120 ohm resistor]--- pin 4
pin  9 ---(HSYNC)-------------------------- pin 2
pin 10 ---(Blue)------[120 ohm resistor]--- pin 5
pin 12 ---(VSYNC)-------------------------- pin 6
pin 13 ---(GrouND)------------------------- pin 3 + Audio GrouND
----------------------------------------------------------------


If you have an STe, you might want to keep the audio out of the video cable and use a normal RCA(/Cinch?) plug-connectory cable for audio. I have both an STfm and (soon) also an STe so I included the audio in the cable.

I used an old, thin and flimsy joystick cable which is not the best possible solution. Here's a quote from someone wiser than me:
Hippy Dave wrote:"If you want an ideal cable, it should use individual 75-ohm coaxial cables (all the same length and twisted) for the video signals."


I hope you get the monitor working with your ST, the C1084 is a fine monitor indeed :)

Cheers,
Andru

edit: added pinout thingy for completeness.

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby flemmingsa » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:10 am

Hi all

New to the forum here!
Just reviving an old thread...

I made a ST - 1084s cable and it kind of works...
I have audio and a crisp and stable picture, but the colors are not quite right. I now have a green desktop, but it seems like white is not available. Instead the border is sort of light turqoise.
I didn't put any resistors on RGB lines, is this the cause or am I missing something? The same goes for games, there doesn't seem to be any white...

Flemming
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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby simbo » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:54 pm

hi my pal
your problem isnt the cable its the monitor

at the end of the cable that comes into the monitor
will be the main pcb

it will go to a colour based buffer and amp section ic's that allows also adjustment to the colours setup

the problem is basicaly the electorlytic capacitors usualy small values and sizes
made from a metal can and inside a coils of two metal 'plates' that have a dielectric insulation layer between them
rolled up they then have a little liquid added and are sealed
they dry out over time!!! this is your issues with colour balance...
they also are on the pcb that is on the end of the crt tube
they form a kind of time relevent battery that stores current much like a header tank in a plumbing system
and also as in your case couple the R G B signals into a system

they come in various shapes

coupling{to carry over the ac signals and leave the dc voltage behind }
decoupling {to get rid of unwanted signals like noise to ground without also coupling the dc }
resoviour { to allow for more 'peek' and 'cold' current to stop voltage drops around the circuit}
shunt {to shunt large currents of ac or a constant current source}

youll find the values to replace are just about any

i will look out the circuit and post a copy here in a sensible form with all the caps to replace circled


i will also endevor to find and post a schematic for a 'given level gen' as i found a good source of connectors
or a monitor known levels test box is required????
i will design and make the circuit avalible if needed
i suspect one mcu pic or atmel controller will be enough


so give me a day or two to find the circuit and edit it

meanwhile
take the back off the monitor blow out all the dust and take a couple of pictures
i will then guide you and if needed on msn.. or skype

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby flemmingsa » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:16 pm

Really???

The colors on my Commodore 64 are fine, connected to the same monitor, but of course through the chroma/luma RCA jacks.
Does this make a difference?

Flemming
Denmark

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby Desty » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:48 am

simbo wrote:the problem is basicaly the electorlytic capacitors usualy small values and sizes
made from a metal can and inside a coils of two metal 'plates' that have a dielectric insulation layer between them
rolled up they then have a little liquid added and are sealed
they dry out over time!!! this is your issues with colour balance...

And apparently it doesn't take 20 years either... I bought a Polaroid LCD for my ST about 2 years ago... tested it when it arrived and it was fine. Left it in its box for 6 months or a year before hooking it up to the STe and the display would show the Polaroid splash screen and then just go black. Apparently they've been using bad caps :x
tá'n poc ar buile!

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby Anemos » Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:29 pm

sorry for broken links, i have replace them all with [Attachments] photos.. :cheers:
Atari 1040 STE - 4mb - TOS 1.62
Atari 1040 STF - 1mb - TOS 1.00

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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby calimero » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:19 pm

hi,

I just try to connect my STe to Commodore 1084s (d-sub 9 pin version) but I got quite distorted colors. Take a look at screenshot. GEM looks ok (but green is not corect green!) and games have distorted colors (red and blue are very week and everything is greenish).

I put 100 ohm resistors on RGB line and 70ohm on composite sync.

Does anybody have any idea what could be problem ?

btw monitor work perfectly with Amiga 500.
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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby Dal » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:33 pm

Looks like you have green and blue but I don't see any red. Check your red line again...
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Re: Atari ST to Commodore 1084s monitor

Postby calimero » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:13 pm

Dal wrote:Looks like you have green and blue but I don't see any red. Check your red line again...


you are definitively right! red is the problem.

I check cable and cable is ok. Maybe port in monitor is broken... I will try to make composite signal to make sure that output from STe is ok...
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X


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